Archery Buffs last year

[Horns_Archive]

The biggest problem I see is the auto balancer, it will put all cav or most all ranged on the same team. Instead of balancing classes on each team it balances it player wise so you wind up fighting multiple archers on high ground triangulating you.
I've been on a team with no cav switched to cav to help team and it put me on the team with all the cav.

You pretty much nailed it. I want to change team balance to be of the order classes > banner > points. Will probably be really difficult but it is worth a shot.

[Beleg]

One issue is that the most viable archer build at the moment is strength based.

This.

Archery isn't op. Thay hit hard because they have high pd. There's no reason to go other way. Athletics doesn't mean shit. Agi builds are useless. So what do you end up with ? Hard hitting archers with also ps and armor.There's no punishment for going tank-archery. I resisted this min-maxing and played with low armor for years for the sake of roleplaying but even I gave up.

Here's what you can do ; reduce arrow weights so that archers can be mobile. Sure, you'll see archers kiting every now and then but at least they won't hit as much.

PS. you 2h heroes only remember the times you got crossfired by multiple archers. You don't remember all the other times when the archer couldn't outrun you so you stomped him.Nobody remembers easy kills.

[Bronto]

You pretty much nailed it. I want to change team balance to be of the order classes > banner > points. Will probably be really difficult but it is worth a shot.

I'm so proud of you horns.  As you know I've been saying this for years and I'm happy you're the one doing the Lord's work. Good on ya m8!

[banned123]

This.

Archery isn't op. Thay hit hard because they have high pd. There's no reason to go other way. Athletics doesn't mean shit. Agi builds are useless. So what do you end up with ? Hard hitting archers with also ps and armor.There's no punishment for going tank-archery. I resisted this min-maxing and played with low armor for years for the sake of roleplaying but even I gave up.

Here's what you can do ; reduce arrow weights so that archers can be mobile. Sure, you'll see archers kiting every now and then but at least they won't hit as much.

PS. you 2h heroes only remember the times you got crossfired by multiple archers. You don't remember all the other times when the archer couldn't outrun you so you stomped him.Nobody remembers easy kills.

Archers being able to kite is worse I believe than them actually being able to melee. Their ranged damage needs toned down for sure, but the fact that some archers actually stand up and fight when you get to them instead of kiting you forever with superior speed is only a good thing.

[Beleg]

Archers being able to kite is worse I believe than them actually being able to melee. Their ranged damage needs toned down for sure, but the fact that some archers actually stand up and fight when you get to them instead of kiting you forever with superior speed is only a good thing.

This is not a balancing issue though. It's just your preference. I think no throwers would be easier for everyone else but that's not how it works. Consider this from an archer's perspective; what is the point of going with a str build if I'm not able to hit hard ?

I'm not saying we should do what I suggested but it's one way to deal with what everybody complains about. Just reducing the damage is lazy and unfair to archers. That being said, if it's gonna please the masses I won't complain.

[Horns_Archive]

I'm so proud of you horns.  As you know I've been saying this for years and I'm happy you're the one doing the Lord's work. Good on ya m8!

thx bb

[Nightingale]

They 1-shot everyone regardless of how much Str or Armor you have.

I'm actually not surprised at all when I see that half the server pop is Archers and stone throwing racist frenchmans.

Uh you banned half the crpg population for playing a childish prank on you and you call other people pissy? I'm sure you wouldn't have abused the fact that you had the power to modify game stats after your precious admin rights got revoked.. first you say it was Raylin now you say you did change them.... ok

I stand by what I did it wasn't a prank on me lmao I could care less if you all spam friend in every sentence; it's against the rules I enforced the rules You don't have to worry about any admins enforcing rules anymore as everyone made a decision that day that admins are no longer needed lol. I don't know how this is relevant to this thread so if you could please stay focused and yes I'm calling you childish and pissy. You over exaggerate everything to demonize me for no purpose. This all happened like a year ago? Get over it lmao. You don't even know what my main character is or any of my playstyles; we have never communicated on any level other than you spewing shit from your asshole about shit I didn't do. Yes, I probably played horse archer a few times that you saw me on. Oh no, I must be Satan incarnate I play the game differently than you. I definitely wasn't testing Raylin's range patch in attempts to fix it that would be... to normal for a balancer. I was sapping the fun out of cRPG for you. Yes, you, in particular, I live for such things you know. I get up every day and think about; I wonder what I could do to ruin Gytikvn's day. Ik I'll play horse archer muahaha.

but seriously horns- the old bows are as they were before Raylin touched them; the new bows I attempted to fill slightly different niche's than the old bows to give them a sense of purpose- You should relook over those and I have several spreadsheets dedicated to asking various people that assisted me in my balancing decisions. (Never implemented but was in the general direction of previous stats and playstyles possible in 2013.) As for your assumption that I fiddled with archery purposefully to "get back" at you after I stopped caring to play. You are retarded. lol I stated clearly that I reverted Raylin's patch and that is the last I touched the files. This was before I got removed by Uther.  So please stop being a petty cunt and move on with your life.

I still have all of my WIP spreadsheets if you would like to see them horns. Including those on horse archery; archery, xbows and throwing.

[Inglorious]

I can't comment on the state of EU, but on NA archers are definitely an issue right now. I've been playing a lot on my archer, anti-archer, and cav alts since cRPG revived, so I feel like I don't have too much bias for either the pro- or anti-archer side.

One issue is that the most viable archer build at the moment is strength based. Obviously this means archers are hitting very hard with every arrow, but it also benefits them in melee. Not only does getting hit by an archer in melee hurt, but the 1H nudge with high strength sends you flying, giving the archer at least another free shot for a relatively low-skill move (this coming from someone who does this often on his archer alt).

While my anti-archer/thrower build (18/27 shielder) works decently well at dispatching ranged, the compromises I make in order to catch ranged at the cost of strength means that any archer will melee support becomes very difficult to deal with. I think this might be why NA is experiencing more issues than EU, most players who mainly play archer also bannerstack. This means often one team has a few archers with supporting infantry, while the other team is made up mostly of infantry with maybe a sole archer receiving no support. This type of scenario leads to a massacre and makes it very frustrating to play on the non-bannerstack team.

Finally, cav, which should have a role suppressing and quickly taking out archers in some scenarios, are pretty much a free 10 points for any non-blind/deaf archer. In the current state of the game cav is way too fragile, making approaching archers or throwers unfeasible in most scenarios. Unarmored cav can take 2-3 body shots (or 1 horse headshot) from a strength archer before being dismounted.

I am not saying necessarily that archers are overpowered (I think they somewhat are), but, at least in NA, much of the issue has to do with the state of the meta. Everyone wants to play 2H or polearms because that's what's most fun for them. These players don't consider switching to a class that can better handle ranged just to accommodate the threat a few players on the enemy team pose, mainly because those classes aren't very satisfying to play (shielder) or are too weak (cav). What these players do instead is get frustrated and leave the server.

THIS THIS THIS THIS THISSSSS

I played for an hour, died twice in melee and the rest was to archers. Also, my damn horse was just dying right out of the gate. Moved up to using my armored horse. 4-5 shots instead of 2-3. And even if the horse dies as I get to them, I go into melee with the archer, and he can nudge me back and keep shooting as I have no athletics to keep up and am wearing heavy armor to counter arrow fire to boot.

[Kadeth]

what do you think would happen if this was a real battle.

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[Westwood]

Cavalry might get slightly more difficult when server population is low, since ranged players can target you with impunity, but cavalry as a whole is definitely not weak. It's more of a population problem at certain hours, or concentrations of archers/cavalry on just one team either due to banner stacks or bad balance (like someone said already).

Really even then cav is great.

Honestly I haven't noticed any change in archery, if anything it's seemed less obnoxious so far than it did last time cRPG rose from the dead.

[Davic]

Cavalry might get slightly more difficult when server population is low, since ranged players can target you with impunity, but cavalry as a whole is definitely not weak. It's more of a population problem at certain hours, or concentrations of archers/cavalry on just one team either due to banner stacks or bad balance (like someone said already).

Really even then cav is great.

Honestly I haven't noticed any change in archery, if anything it's seemed less obnoxious so far than it did last time cRPG rose from the dead.

I agree cav isn't weak, I just disagree with how cRPG treats them as the ultimate glass cannon. In the current state of the game, cav is devolved to stabbing and bumping people when they're distracted. It's not hard to do well playing like this, but I personally don't find it very satisfying to kill like this, and also recognize it's very frustrating to get killed by this.

When it comes to archery, it depends on the archer. I don't even give decent archers, who know to prioritize cav over infantry that aren't posing an immediate threat, a line of sight on me if I can help it.

[banned123]

I agree cav isn't weak, I just disagree with how cRPG treats them as the ultimate glass cannon. In the current state of the game, cav is devolved to stabbing and bumping people when they're distracted. It's not hard to do well playing like this, but I personally don't find it very satisfying to kill like this, and also recognize it's very frustrating to get killed by this.

That isn't the only way to play cavalry in cRPG, but it is the best way if you purely want to tryhard. The problem is, that will ALWAYS be the best way to play cav no matter what, it's an issue with the class as a concept being able to pick every single fight they engage in.

Cavalry is still the strongest class, but even back when it was more ridiculous 90% of the cav players still only backstabbed or bumped people already fighting. Really I think the problem right now with cav is the level 35 builds letting you be a jack of all trades- the best horses requiring 7 riding is great but when you're level 35+ that doesn't require much of a trade off. If you were level 30 that would require some specialized builds like 15/21 or 18/21 with some very streamlined skills.

[Davic]

That isn't the only way to play cavalry in cRPG, but it is the best way if you purely want to tryhard. The problem is, that will ALWAYS be the best way to play cav no matter what, it's an issue with the class as a concept being able to pick every single fight they engage in.

Cavalry is still the strongest class, but even back when it was more ridiculous 90% of the cav players still only backstabbed or bumped people already fighting. Really I think the problem right now with cav is the level 35 builds letting you be a jack of all trades- the best horses requiring 7 riding is great but when you're level 35+ that doesn't require much of a trade off. If you were level 30 that would require some specialized builds like 15/21 or 18/21 with some very streamlined skills.

There's not much point discussing playing cav except in the most viable way. You CAN get kills and do damage via a more frontal approach, but it's not as efficient and much more risky. I agree that even in Native backstabbing is the best way to play, but due to Native horses' tankiness they were able to be more direct, and could bump-slash/stab without worrying about getting reared and dismounted by a guy with a 1H sword.

IMO, cav was by far the strongest class in Native, but it's definitely not in cRPG. It's not just the fragility of cavalry, the class's maneuverability and stab radius have also been severely reduced. Its strengths lay in its speed and ability to deal a lot of damage at once, but because every strike needs to be so precise, it loses a lot of the finesse and IMO skill that you see in Native cavalry. I'd rather see a compromise of how cav is in Native and cRPG than what we have now.

[Taser]

I remember easy kills, they're the only kills I can get :'(

But srs, last night at the end of the round I was last man standing and was blackbarred having just killed a pesky thrower, against the 5 guys on the other teams. I got caught in an archer crossfire of 2 - 3 archers and died fast despite my shitty 0 req shield. People spammed 'get a shield' as a joke afterwards, but tbf if I'd been against 5 of any class focusing me down at that point I'd have died just as fast. Can't balance based on a 1 vs many scenario like that.

Shield boomerang Heskey.

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[Westwood]

There's not much point discussing playing cav except in the most viable way. You CAN get kills and do damage via a more frontal approach, but it's not as efficient and much more risky. I agree that even in Native backstabbing is the best way to play, but due to Native horses' tankiness they were able to be more direct, and could bump-slash/stab without worrying about getting reared and dismounted by a guy with a 1H sword.

IMO, cav was by far the strongest class in Native, but it's definitely not in cRPG. It's not just the fragility of cavalry, the class's maneuverability and stab radius have also been severely reduced. Its strengths lay in its speed and ability to deal a lot of damage at once, but because every strike needs to be so precise, it loses a lot of the finesse and IMO skill that you see in Native cavalry. I'd rather see a compromise of how cav is in Native and cRPG than what we have now.

I can dig that. I wouldn't say cav is a glass cannon though (maybe little bitch cav is), and while I do get what you're saying I'm not unhappy with cavalry's role in cRPG myself. My view of that would be:

1. neutralize enemy cavalry,
2. support footmen by flanking developing melee,
3. chase down stragglers,

and all that seems fairly legitimate to me. It is absolutely easy to get kills on cavalry, and often that means a horseman will attempt to catch someone on foot off-guard from behind, as is the Cavalry Prerogative^TM, but plenty of cavalry attacks come head on as well. It's quite true that winning that kind of engagement is more rewarding than meming someone from behind, as you said, but I don't think cavalry is ill-equipped to handle that as much as you may think. As long as a person understands the length of their lance (which should always be MW Heavy) and the characteristics of whatever weapon they're facing it just comes down to timing and belief in their own ability. When Sparvico is on his cav alt I tell him all the time to go in on a guy that knows he's there, because I know that Sparvicav can take him, but he doesn't follow my advice because, frankly, he's a little bitch.

It's my belief that the "glass cannon" here is more a state of mind. I believe a horseman is rewarded for playing smart, but not playing like a pussy. There's really nothing like dumping on a man with an Ashwood or some such thing who had all the time in the world to prepare for you but still couldn't cut it. Same with your fellow cavalryman, asserting your dominance in a cav-on-cav imbroglio is the ultimate expression of your ability. Soft targets die first, sure, but if that business is done with and I'm still on horse I don't consider myself unlucky or unprepared to engage more heavily armored/armed/prepared individuals or groups.

tldr pusscav is badcav, charge into pikes; God will recognize his own.

24/21
WM 7
A 7
R 7
PS 8

All Polearm proficiency all the time. Champ Destrier always.