A new approach to lancing

[Chagan_Arslan]

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[Seawied]

Keep it relevant Arslan

[Glyph]

WHY DON'T PEOPLE GET THAT THIS TREAD ISN'T ABOUT NERFING CAV, BUT BALANCING POKE-LANCING AND COUCHING!!! atleast i do.

[Seawied]

  You get a cookie for paying attention to what the first post was saying. Unfortunately, when I tried to give you a cookie through my monitor, the cookie was smashed against my screen.

In liu of a cookie, here is a +1   

[Digglez]

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This has me dying, I loved that movie.

[Chagan_Arslan]

your changes are a bit of a class killer so yeah i think its relevant

but hey im biased what do i know

[Sammael]

I support a re-balancing of cavalry lance use. Far too many cavalry rely solely on thrusting. You can't blame them for this, however, as couch lancing is simply not as effective for almost every scenario.

If lance thrust is to be nerfed, couch lancing should be compensated, though I do not think the changes need to be drastic in order to bring more diversity into the cavalry play style.

Here is what I agree with.

Reduce (not remove) the couch cool down.
Lower the minimum speed required to couch the lance
Decrease the thrust damage of lances moderately (25% or so)

This would encourage cavalry to couch when targeting enemies who are unaware or heavily armored. Thrust lancing would still be usable versus opponents who are mobile and aware, but would not one shot as often.

I have been cavalry for 7 of my 8 gens on my main, and would love to see more diversity amongst cavalry. (I also support a slight buff to the hafted/long hafted blade swing from horseback)

[Seawied]

Arslan, Cavalry would still be very viable with these changes. Some of the changes are actually a buff. Right now, poking a lance is superior to any other form of mounted combat, pigeon holing cavalry v cavalry battle to primarily to this particular form of combat. My suggestion mainly focuses on giving these few items some drawbacks to their poked form.


@Sammael, it sounds like we are about on the same page. After I posted the original post, I started realizing how a removed cool down could be abused. I updated the first page to reflect this change. I agree that a reduced cool down would be a much more balanced approach.

The swing on the hafted blade should just be faster. The damage itself is fine, but the speed is ridiculous. I feel like its being swung through yogurt at the moment.

[Glyph]

i still want my cookie!!!

[Chagan_Arslan]

Arslan, Cavalry would still be very viable with these changes. Some of the changes are actually a buff. Right now, poking a lance is superior to any other form of mounted combat, pigeon holing cavalry v cavalry battle to primarily to this particular form of combat. My suggestion mainly focuses on giving these few items some drawbacks to their poked form.

the thing is, your looking at cav from western point of view, where cav means tight formations and couching straight forward, while in east it was all about loose formations, maneuverability and skirmish (ha and lancers alike)

and remember its a video game, dropping lance on hit might be realistic unless you hit a head, but having one aspect of realism while so many others being unrealistic is bad, to name a few

strafing as infantry
attacking while backpeddaling
jumping in battle (leave it for the movies)
fork stopping plated chargers (at very large angle if hit to the front of a horse)
longbows hitting harder than composite bows
roofcamping
no limb damage (5% hp left and you act like its just a scratch)
underwater breathing and shooting
etc

[22nd_King_Plazek]

I do not think this has anything to do with east vs west personally.
I just think lancers are more powerful than they should be. This seems to be the whole crux of this thread, the over prevalance of lance pokers. What does this have to do with forward couching or tight formations?

As an aside a general maneuverability nerf would suck. Out maneuvering your opponent is the only way to beat a lancer.

[Seawied]

Additionally, lances didn't drop on impact as much as you are implying, but lets focus on gameplay mechanics over history here.


I haven't heard a convincing argument yet that lancers are anything but the most powerful type of cavalry in the game.

[Ujin]

Additionally, lances didn't drop on impact as much as you are implying, but lets focus on gameplay mechanics over history here.


I haven't heard a convincing argument yet that lancers are anything but the most powerful type of cavalry in the game.

Danish/German are still the most used 2h in the game (they're the most expensive looms to buy at the market). GLA is still pretty much the best polearm.

Lancers are the best type of cavalry in the game ? Well yeah, so? 1h cav don't drop their weapons when they switch them, their primary cav weapons are about as good when they dehorsed, they rape lance cavalry in close quarters with x10 better swing speed and much less glances. Their bumpslash combo at full speed is just as good as lancing when it comes to attacking unaware opponents in the back plus, unlike the lancers' thrust , there is no block button against bumpslashing (bumplancing is still harder to do, hush).

On top of that ,if they know how to ride and think quick enough, they can still beat lance cavalry.

The constant whining about cavalry (lance cavalry especially since it is more popular) was so persistent and neverending that it's starting to look like nerfing lancers in ANY way possible is some sort of a holy mission for some developers nowadays.

That is the reason why people like me and Chagan are not really active in threads like this anymore, restricting ourselves to posting a couple of troll-like sentences or pictures. We are simply TIRED. It's like  being a murder suspect in the court where nobody wants to listen to the defending side.

Lancers are the better cavalry, well guess what ? It's freaking supposed to be that way, from the start of M&B, from the launch of Warband and cRPG, since the goddamn dawn of time. Get over it .

The only real thing you could do though is balance the most popular horses a bit, but since you don't want to listen, you might as well just go ahead and keep telling us that lancers are the real problem here.

[Casimir]

Lancers are the better cavalry, well guess what ? It's freaking supposed to be that way, from the start of M&B, from the launch of Warband and cRPG, since the goddamn dawn of time. Get over it .

there's a reason pole arm is the main skill for cavalry, because thats how its meant to be

its powerful cos its supposed to be, the same as 2h swords are more powerful than 1h, they are supposed to be

[Jarlek]

Danish/German are still the most used 2h in the game (they're the most expensive looms to buy at the market). GLA is still pretty much the best polearm.

Lancers are the best type of cavalry in the game ? Well yeah, so? 1h cav don't drop their weapons when they switch them, their primary cav weapons are about as good when they dehorsed, they rape lance cavalry in close quarters with x10 better swing speed and much less glances. Their bumpslash combo at full speed is just as good as lancing when it comes to attacking unaware opponents in the back plus, unlike the lancers' thrust , there is no block button against bumpslashing (bumplancing is still harder to do, hush).

On top of that ,if they know how to ride and think quick enough, they can still beat lance cavalry.

The constant whining about cavalry (lance cavalry especially since it is more popular) was so persistent and neverending that it's starting to look like nerfing lancers in ANY way possible is some sort of a holy mission for some developers nowadays.

That is the reason why people like me and Chagan are not really active in threads like this anymore, restricting ourselves to posting a couple of troll-like sentences or pictures. We are simply TIRED. It's like  being a murder suspect in the court where nobody wants to listen to the defending side.

Lancers are the better cavalry, well guess what ? It's freaking supposed to be that way, from the start of M&B, from the launch of Warband and cRPG, since the goddamn dawn of time. Get over it .

The only real thing you could do though is balance the most popular horses a bit, but since you don't want to listen, you might as well just go ahead and keep telling us that lancers are the real problem here.

Someone give Ujin a cookie. Or a BJ, whatever you chose.