Author Topic: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus  (Read 20792 times)

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Offline Malaclypse

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Re: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2016, 01:04:00 am »
+5
I think we should have a combined map, with all battles fought on CHN or AUS server, so it's horrible for all EU/NA players.
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Offline Butan

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Re: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2016, 01:33:19 am »
0
When the map was combined, there was still a timezone split along the middle amiright? Would gladly hear more opinions about how it all worked back then.

Offline sJimmy

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Re: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2016, 01:47:08 am »
+2
1 Map, forces EU and NA to work together, which I think is a good thing. More people playing. I think it worked on who owned the Fief the server the battle would be on NA or EU. I don’t remember.

Add voting to fiefs, I know in Strat 4 that worked out well and where tons of battles.


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Offline Keshian

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Re: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2016, 01:51:48 am »
-1
When the map was combined, there was still a timezone split along the middle amiright? Would gladly hear more opinions about how it all worked back then.

Basically defender got to choose server in their settings and attacker could attack whenever.  So EUs would attack NA during their work hours and NA would attack EU during their 3-6 am sleep hours.
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Offline Vovka

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Re: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2016, 09:55:11 am »
+3
But really last time we fought DRZ in EU we whupped them good, and they just resorted to cheating and glitching - actually why devs shut down strat 2. 
If i remember it right
1st u attack city with 10 man and cap it in the midle of the night with 3vs1 battle cos all of u spawned inside the walls cos of bug. Then due another bug like 4 or 6 ur accouns stay in the field and get troops exponentially rather than to die from lack of gold so for like 5-10hr each of them had a few thousand troops  :P

http://forum.melee.org/strategus-issues/troops-resupply-bug/msg219058/#msg219058 in case if anyone is interested in the truth and not the Kesh stories  :P
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 10:16:10 am by Vovka »
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Offline Torben

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Re: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2016, 11:05:38 am »
+1
considering improvement:
as implementing more detailed places of strategic value to the map ( http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/give-the-strat-map-more-places-of-strategic-interest/ )
would be too much work,  mayhaps at least give different fiefs different purposes?

so to make trade even between factions that might not like each other more interesting mayhaps limit the kinds of weapons and armors each fief sells?
every fief sells all low tier gear,  but medium and high tier shit is scarcely distributed. also some things can only be loomed to +3 in certain fiefs.

in an ideal world s&d or production points would be generated by trade,  and would also directly influence the amount of poplulation / garrison a fief can have. but that is probably too much work.
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Offline Vovka

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Re: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2016, 12:06:39 pm »
+2
- Possibility of construction of new fefs with the restriction on the minimum distance from each other
- production based on pixels type in radius 500-1000-1500m
- possibility for players of gather resourses based on pixels type in radius 200m
- change prosperity point to labor points (LP)
- return the ability to convert troop-pop pop-troops
- players and fiefs generate pop (% from current pop), pop generate LP, LP+resourses are spent for building and crafting
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 12:12:05 pm by Vovka »
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Offline Butan

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Re: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2016, 03:08:20 pm »
+1
Lots of good points.

Quote from: Torben
mayhaps at least give different fiefs different purposes?

The problem with that, is that if a faction can only grab a village, if villages are specifically X thing, how does that faction can do Y,Z ? I think the current approach is good, fiefs can be set to be anything, but the number of available upgrades give a limited window.


Quote from: Vovka
Possibility of construction of new fefs with the restriction on the minimum distance from each other

Time honoured fiefs is a large part of Strategus lore, I think it would be best to not change that.
Also since fiefs are directly linked to maps, and maps have a huge importance on defensive potential etc... Even if we could randomly set maps to fiefs we create, it could create imbalances.

I know it would refresh the experience of everyone to have a kind of new map, or at least more dynamic, but there is just too much at stake.


A compromise to that would be the ability to settle fiefs at the beginning of the round, which would be used as a "voting to fiefs" function. X people would be needed to settle a fief, and the fief would be given to one of the "settler" randomly. No more AI fiefs, and people would be rewarded for organising their members to gather at certain places and build their kingdom. If that system is employed, it would be a big incentive for people to "prepare" their faction, recruit members, draw claims and plans, before the round starts, which would guarantee a big playerbase right off the bat.
Also if fiefs can be settled, they could potentally be unsettled destroyed...  8-)

If settling is impossible, voting for fiefs or random distribution are the closest ideas. Any other ideas to eliminate AI fiefs + give an interesting start?



Quote from: Kesh
Basically defender got to choose server in their settings and attacker could attack whenever.  So EUs would attack NA during their work hours and NA would attack EU during their 3-6 am sleep hours.

My take on nighttime is that it should be "forced on, server set", and individually managed for EU and NA.
People who "join" strategus need to choose either EU or NA before spawning, can only be reset by special admin actions with a proper justification (no "I want to exploit").
EU set players have enforced nighttime which pushes all battles toward EU primetime, priority to defenders.
NA set players have enforced nighttime which pushes all battles toward NA primetime, priority to defenders.

EU/NA nighttime/primetime to be decided.

This could create "choke points" where the servers have too many battles, especially if we manage to increase strategus popularity. We might need more servers for this system to work, and I've been told that it wasnt impossible, so fingers crossed.
If that was possible it would mean there would be near no battles during the wee hours and the work day (even in the week end) which is bad for certain people but good for most.
In that situation, one map for EU/NA would be conceivable with the least tears possible.



Quote
so to make trade even between factions that might not like each other more interesting mayhaps limit the kinds of weapons and armors each fief sells?
every fief sells all low tier gear,  but medium and high tier shit is scarcely distributed. also some things can only be loomed to +3 in certain fiefs.

Quote
- return the ability to convert troop-pop pop-troops
- players and fiefs generate pop (% from current pop), pop generate LP, LP+resourses are spent for building and crafting

Fiefs management will vastly stay the same, but there is a couple changes that I think will benefit the game, namely:

- removing discounts + removing malus to reselling
- changing from "all items are available at -1" to "no items available at all" in unspecced fiefs
- invest PP to open each specific shops at +0 items (body armor, throwing weapons)
- invest more PP in a shop to give +1 to all, +2 to all, +3 to all, each +1 = +10% value
- when an item breaks, it goes straight to -1, -2, or -4 (even if started at +3), each -1 = -10% value
- breaking should not be 100% guaranteed, more like 25-50% for each individual items (like how repair works in general)

So if you want a +3 army, you gotta pay a lot for the increase in efficiency. And when such an army gets dented, the reselling is hardly close to the initial cost.
An army of +0 would be way cheaper guaranteed, and reselling the broken pieces after, would be close to the initial cost.

So there would be a real decision between "should I make more +0, or less +3?". Quantity, or quality? Instead of the actual no-brain, everything to +3 discounted and produced en masse.
Capturing gear would become a very beneficial way to make money too.


There will also be a change to population/crime and maybe the introduction of a new parameter.
Converting pop to troops and troops to pop should be a reality, but will need to be monitored closely.



Crafting will, I think, stay AI controlled. From what I gathered from the past, crafting was a bit broken when player controlled, and boring, no?

Offline Vovka

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Re: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2016, 03:17:54 pm »
0
Also since fiefs are directly linked to maps, and maps have a huge importance on defensive potential etc... Even if we could randomly set maps to fiefs we create, it could create imbalances.
fiefs is just a list with cordinates? no? map inbalanced look at the desert <3
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Offline Butan

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Re: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2016, 03:30:46 pm »
0
fiefs is just a list with cordinates? no? map inbalanced look at the desert <3

I dont know if its just coordinates. What I feel is that it would take a lot of effort to make it work and potentially break the game. You are welcome to argue otherwise ofc.

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Re: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2016, 04:02:21 pm »
+2

Offline Keshian

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Re: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2016, 05:09:10 pm »
-1
I personally don't like  the voting system, completely removes small loners factions and gives advantages to big ones right from the start. Don't have ideas on fiefs distribution though.

Yeah voting not good, bots would even be better, just something to force battles for cities and castles that otherwise never get fought over in entire strat.  Then enemies attack it while you are weakened after losing a lot to ai in taking it in the first place.  Voting leads to camping fiefs big time.

Also, Butan that push to EU primetime if EU defending would make no one attack, because then they have both primetime advantage AND server advantage - guaranteed loss for any NA attacker and vice versa if EU attacks NA.

Really, really need strat to give crpg gold and strat ticks as part of fighting in strat battles with your performance maybe effecting your rate, but it should be regular just like battle ticks.  Would motivate a lot of playerbase to come back to strat.

Looking back at those old forum pages on issues, having ai towns having 1 million gold and castles 500,000 really made strat more active because everyone was duking it out over the few villages.  Just make sure once they take castle or city players dont get the gold or any equipment bought with it, so non-exploitable.  Taking ai castle more of a challenge for the PP.


P.S. Vovka - horrible example - a bug happened in game that we instantly reported to IRC (unlike you who had been "testing" bug for a while it sounds like and ever reported to devs) and retreated from the battle and waited until it was fixed, which back then they fixed bugs almost immediately.  If anything your link confirms how much you guys cheated and abused bugs instead of reporting them.  Also, noticed it was strat 3 - the one we quit for star wars because of all the bugs and slowwwww carvan movement.  To bad forum doesn't date back to strat 2 or 1 - tons of examples of you cheating in that war against us, especially once you started losing.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 05:39:18 pm by Keshian »
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Offline Butan

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Re: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2016, 07:27:41 pm »
0
Also, Butan that push to EU primetime if EU defending would make no one attack, because then they have both primetime advantage AND server advantage - guaranteed loss for any NA attacker and vice versa if EU attacks NA.

If that is coupled with lots of incentive to participate, why would it be impossible for a NA attack on EU primetime+ping to succeed?
From what you told me, without nighttime it meant that EU attacked while NA was away, and NA attacked while EU slept... not really good either I think!

It would make NA attacking EU and vice-versa, naturally harder, but playable for all, with support from the other side of the Atlantic and a little effort.

Also EU and NA primetime could start at an hour which is at the end of the primetime of the other, if you know what I mean? There is 1 or 2 hours where both EU and NA primetime are superposed. So there would be that much time to do battles at a reasonable time for everyone.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 07:31:53 pm by Butan »

Offline Vovka

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Re: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2016, 07:30:05 pm »
+2
tons of examples of you cheating in that war against us, especially once you started losing.
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Also, noticed it was strat 3 - the one we quit for star wars because of all the bugs and slowwwww carvan movement.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 07:53:09 pm by Vovka »
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Offline Knute

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Re: [Community discussion] What can be improved on Strategus
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2016, 07:32:03 pm »
0
One downside of putting EU/NA back on the same map would be when you're all crammed into a small area and need to travel to trade, people would be less likely to start wars with neighbors. This is a map I made back in 2011 (nerd alert) when people were discussing the same issue and how to resolve it the next round. Red and blue colored areas/factions were fighting each other at the time and green areas were just chilling.

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If we did go back to one map, maybe a way to mix it up would be to do something like this with the EU and NA zones spread out so players would have to travel through both types of areas. It might encourage collaboration between EU/NA factions so there'd be a better chance of roster support at all hours and create some good drama.

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