We Are Reverting

[imisshotmail]

I dont see why archers and xbows are so extremly accurate, how on earth is that even somewhat realistic?  Why dont we make archery and xbows a bit stronger but less accurate how it actually should be.

That would solve a lot of problems, such as archers stopping shooting into melee fights and bagge like headshooting from like 100 meters

This is why you suck!!!!

This is the worst possible balance you could do, you're adding huge elements of randomness and not actually removing the parts that are extremely unfun to play against, and actively reducing the fun level of playing the class.

The high damage is the problem, if you reduce the accuracy all you are doing is making it less fun and skill based for the ranged player, the melee player is still going to get shot by high damage bows because it's not 1 ranged player shooting, it's many. It wouldn't stop ranged shooting into fights with their teammates, it would just lead to more teamhits further reducing the fun for everyone involved.

You literally want to nerf the only skill based and fair part of playing a ranged class, the aiming and specifically getting headshots.

[BlindGuy]

Put reflect team damage to ON; 100%

Watch how archers dont shoot into melee anymore

[Rebelyell]

(click to show/hide)

I throw down the gauntlet and demand to be made an item balancer.
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How do even know when you are never on EU...
btw that screenshot is from old lvl system?

You use som wierd ass logick here.

"oi I dont know you but you suck and i am good look at that screanschot form 2 years ago I am sooo good you suck so i am right"

[Malaclypse]

Bring back Long Spear overheads, ty

[Gravoth_iii]

Bring back Long Spear overheads, ty

And old polearm overhead hitboxes!

[Rico]

Rico can I ask why you and others are at all involved in cRPG item balancing? I don't mean this as an insult but you are not good players and never were, and don't understand fundamental concepts about the game.

I am not responsible for decisions made by previous balancers. My involvement into balance starts with this thread. Whether I'm the right person for the job is something you can decide after I've done something.

Being open to suggestions like you are is a bad idea because you don't understand the consequences of what people suggest.

People who are not open to suggestions make balance a disaster, as frequently proven in the past.

I throw down the gauntlet and demand to be made an item balancer.

If you want to join the contributors team, don't start with trashtalking your future colleagues. You've lost your chance.

You literally want to nerf the only skill based and fair part of playing a ranged class, the aiming and specifically getting headshots.

Compensating for wide crosshairs requires skill; shooting with pinpoint accurate ranged weapons does not. Landing a headshot into a 20 pixel head is harder with a 30 pixel crosshair than with a 1 pixel crosshair, and it doesn't come down to luck. If you center your 30 pixels into the 20 pixels, chances are you'll hit. If you aim at the top left edge of the earlobe with your 1 pixel, you'll still hit although you technically didn't aim at the center of the head.

[Gravoth_iii]

Compensating for wide crosshairs requires skill; shooting with pinpoint accurate ranged weapons does not. Landing a headshot into a 20 pixel head is harder with a 30 pixel crosshair than with a 1 pixel crosshair, and it doesn't come down to luck. If you center your 30 pixels into the 20 pixels, chances are you'll hit. If you aim at the top left edge of the earlobe with your 1 pixel, you'll still hit although you technically didn't aim at the center of the head.

Actually, with wider reticules, skill is reduced. It goes down to a luck game where the influence you can do is cover as much area as possible in the wide reticule, so you are forced to shotgun. Imagine cs with wide crosshairs, more skillbased now? i dont think so. Ranged should be accurate, but leading shots and predicting movements should also be where the skill kicks in.

Lets make weapons swing shorter at random intervals, and ranges. See how that will affect the melee gameplay, more skill? nope, you will have to facehug to be safe constantly, but a core part of using the range of your weapon is reduced to rng.

[imisshotmail]

If you want to join the contributors team, don't start with trashtalking your future colleagues. You've lost your chance.

actually I was already part of the team some years ago when Shik was in charge and i'm the reason for amongst other things- 3slot long spears/pikes, riding requirement increases on heavy horses, the changes to kicks and bump damage being considerably lower.

Maybe you'd know that if you were a relevant person?

And your theories on ranged are exactly the reason you suck at game balance!

[imisshotmail]

Actually, with wider reticules, skill is reduced. It goes down to a luck game where the influence you can do is cover as much area as possible in the wide reticule, so you are forced to shotgun. Imagine cs with wide crosshairs, more skillbased now? i dont think so. Ranged should be accurate, but leading shots and predicting movements should also be where the skill kicks in.

Lets make weapons swing shorter at random intervals, and ranges. See how that will affect the melee gameplay, more skill? nope, you will have to facehug to be safe constantly, but a core part of using the range of your weapon is reduced to rng.

This guy gets it.

[Rebelyell]

actually I was already part of the team some years ago when Shik was in charge and i'm the reason for amongst other things- 2slot long spears/pikes, riding requirement increases on heavy horses, the changes to kicks and bump damage being considerably lower.

Maybe you'd know that if you were a relevant person?

And your theories on ranged are exactly the reason you suck at game balance!

get lost and never come back

[a_bear_irl]

Compensating for wide crosshairs requires skill; shooting with pinpoint accurate ranged weapons does not. Landing a headshot into a 20 pixel head is harder with a 30 pixel crosshair than with a 1 pixel crosshair, and it doesn't come down to luck. If you center your 30 pixels into the 20 pixels, chances are you'll hit. If you aim at the top left edge of the earlobe with your 1 pixel, you'll still hit although you technically didn't aim at the center of the head.

it's the same exact skill being used except one scenario rewards it more, imagine you were perfectly accurate every single time you shot, the best possible archer. in one scenario RNG means you miss 30% of your perfectly aimed shots, in the other they go exactly where you aim them. which scenario rewards your skill more?

now that said IMO the archer cone of fire should be doubled at least, and each bow should weigh what a full suit of gothic plate does. also bows should have half the turn speed of a pike.

[Gravoth_iii]

I'd just like to point out that looking at the game through nerf-goggles will only make the game less enjoyable. A faster paced, more rewarding experience will come from buffs, where things are actually enjoyable to play and not gimped to fuck.

Obviously ranged missile speed is too fast now, but as a tradeoff i think ranged could get damage boost. And to counter that shields should also get buffs. This way both ranged and shields will become more enjoyable to play, as of now i feel shields are a bit of a burden, even in melee they slow you down too much, and dont have the coverage to make up for it either.
Ranged could instead of getting flat out damage boosts, the headshot bonus could be raised, reward skillful shooting, keep body shots as they are.

[Rebelyell]

I'd just like to point out that looking at the game through nerf-goggles will only make the game less enjoyable. A faster paced, more rewarding experience will come from buffs, where things are actually enjoyable to play and not gimped to fuck.

Obviously ranged missile speed is too fast now, but as a tradeoff i think ranged could get damage boost. And to counter that shields should also get buffs. This way both ranged and shields will become more enjoyable to play, as of now i feel shields are a bit of a burden, even in melee they slow you down too much, and dont have the coverage to make up for it either.
Ranged could instead of getting flat out damage boosts, the headshot bonus could be raised, reward skillful shooting, keep body shots as they are.

if you buff shields they will get even stronger on horseback
and they are close to OP now on horesback

[Gravoth_iii]

if you buff shields they will get even stronger on horseback
and they are close to OP now on horesback

They are already at the point where more will not make much of a difference, they cover the entire horse so. Sometimes a stab gets through and hits the head for a rear, i doubt more width would change that.

With the bump slash nerf i think keeping their massive forcefield is needed anyways, cav still super strong, but i think thats where it needs to be.

[Rico]

it's the same exact skill being used except one scenario rewards it more

Not quite; imagine a player has a jittery hand, thus consistently misses the pixel he wants to aim at by an average of 10 pixels into any direction. He wants to aim at the center of a 20 pixels sized head with a pinpoint accurate weapon. Instead, he slips as usual and hits a point 10 pixels away from the center of the head. Due to the pinpoint accurate weapon, the shot hits the 20 pixels sized head missing the center by 10 pixels. It is still a headshot.

In the next case, imagine the jittery player uses a weapon with a 20 pixels sized crosshair. He wants to aim at the center of the 20 pixels sized head again, but slips by 10 pixels. 50% of the 20 pixels sized crosshair is now outside the area of the 20 pixels sized head, meaning he will miss with a likelihood of 50%.

Now assume a player with perfect aim and a weapon with a 20 pixels wide crosshair. He aims at the center of the 20 pixels sized head, doesn't slip unlike the jittery one, and the shot hits despite the inaccuracy of the weapon because the crosshair perfectly overlaps the head.

The pinpoint accurate system does the jittery player a favor, because he is able to land shots he otherwise wouldn't. The perfectly aiming player is indifferent about pinpoint accuracy or the 20 pixels sized crosshair, because he hits either way.

Consequently, the pinpoint accurate system promotes careless shooting into the general direction of the head, whereas the system involving randomness requires special care to center the wide crosshair over an equally-sized area. The prior needs less skill, the latter needs more.