We Are Reverting

[Templar_Steevee]

Reverting u mentioned means to get rid of new bows, or just changing their stats?

+ from me for that revert incoming, missile speed is too high on arrows atm

[Rico]

...

I'm impressed to get such a differentiated experience review on archery builds for a patch that's only online for 34 days. You must have been playing very actively.

Although your evaluation suggests that extreme STR builds are less popular than I suspected, it still shows that STR archery is currently dominating. An ideally balanced state of diversity would envision a bell-shaped distribution with a balanced build in the center and symmetric tails, so that players actually choose by personal preference, not according to a predetermined meta distorted towards one or the other attribute.

As I said before, I certainly won't decide future archery changes by myself, play a big role in influencing these decisions or even just moderate such a discussion. I simply don't know enough about archery to do that.

But I believe that enough indications illustrate that the previous trade-offs between crossbow and archery have been replaced by a significant un-balance favoring archers, which is why we are reverting. The contributors I talked to and the community's feedback seem to agree.

[Casul]

Could we also please add the female version of the plated light brigandine if thats possible?  I look fat but armor is so beautiful :C

[Rico]

the idea that some drooling retard sperg has been demanding the balance be kept awful on purpose so that people use his items is pretty hilarious, and in a normal game where the people doing balance actually play the game i'd be amazed but this is crpg so i'm not even surprised.

That's a rude thing to say and unfair towards Raylin. He didn't blackmail us in any way; that's just an assumption on your part. It did seem fishy when he complained about alleged shortcomings of the previous balance, announced that he will take matters into his own hands and think about playing significantly less if the community were to reject his changes, but that is his decision to make and it merely shows that he was quite emotionally invested, which is not necessarily a bad thing. After arriving at the compromise of a balance experiment instead of a "normal" patch, the possibility of reverting was always on the horizon. Nobody in this mod has enough bargaining power over others to get through with a massive ego-trip at the expense of the community; contributors including Raylin know that and won't implement anything they aren't convinced of themselves.

now while you're reverting godawful balance changes that literally nobody who played the game ever liked, how about getting rid of the turn speed nerf? reminder that the only people who wanted it were CMP and paul, people who hadn't played in years even back then

I am a great turnrate nerf hater, but won't do anything before reaching a consensus. The topic is on the table though.

[Rico]

Reverting u mentioned means to get rid of new bows, or just changing their stats?

+ from me for that revert incoming, missile speed is too high on arrows atm

We won't remove items, but they won't retain their stats. The new bows will most likely be a spin-off version of the old bows, since reverting has priority and new stuff that gets implemented does so in a way that doesn't compromise the old balance concept.

Could we also please add the female version of the plated light brigandine if thats possible?  I look fat but armor is so beautiful :C

I'll look into it after I get file access; please post off-topic suggestions in Suggestion's Corner. This thread is mainly a Balance Experiment Wrap-Up Q&A and sweetspot discussion.

[Gravoth_iii]

I am a great turnrate nerf hater, but won't do anything before reaching a consensus. The topic is on the table though.

Of all the good and bad changes made, i still feel as if this was the least needed and most gameplay ruining change, the one that has stood out to me pretty much every single day ive played since it happened, and probaly my most common cause of rq still. The speed of the game doesnt allow for slow turns, from my experience that is. But people really disliked the spin stab spazzy moves, maybe because of how it looks ridiculous. It added more feints, phyrex made exceptional use of it and it was great fun to duel him.

[bagge]

Soo Rus Bow will be back to normal? Plez

[imisshotmail]

Rico can I ask why you and others are at all involved in cRPG item balancing? I don't mean this as an insult but you are not good players and never were, and don't understand fundamental concepts about the game. Being open to suggestions like you are is a bad idea because you don't understand the consequences of what people suggest.

[imisshotmail]

I throw down the gauntlet and demand to be made an item balancer.
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[Casul]

I don't mean this as an insult but you are not good players and never were

I'd rather have a calm objective bad paying item balancer than a shortsighted tryharding minmaxer

[imisshotmail]

I'd rather have a calm objective bad paying item balancer than a shortsighted tryharding minmaxer

Except all the recent changes are the exact opposite of calm and objective, and are most definitely shortsighted.

[Ikarus]

Regarding to xbows: I think we don´t have to completely reset them back to the old state. There are just some minor things to do like reducing the reload time of the light xbows (HX should be a reasonable and playable class again), reducing accuracy (and maybe a bit of missile speed? They sometimes feel like guns since the bolts instahit).
The difference between arbalest and heavy xbow is finally totally ok. Arbalest needs a fatty str xbow to fight with, while heavy xbow is still sorta reachable if you still want to be able to run.

You guys really put a lot of effort into balancing, really appreciate that 

[a_bear_irl]

That's a rude thing to say and unfair towards Raylin. He didn't blackmail us in any way; that's just an assumption on your part. It did seem fishy when he complained about alleged shortcomings of the previous balance, announced that he will take matters into his own hands and think about playing significantly less if the community were to reject his changes, but that is his decision to make and it merely shows that he was quite emotionally invested, which is not necessarily a bad thing. After arriving at the compromise of a balance experiment instead of a "normal" patch, the possibility of reverting was always on the horizon. Nobody in this mod has enough bargaining power over others to get through with a massive ego-trip at the expense of the community; contributors including Raylin know that and won't implement anything they aren't convinced of themselves.
I am a great turnrate nerf hater, but won't do anything before reaching a consensus. The topic is on the table though.

lmao, yeah ok he didn't blackmail you he just said he would stop playing and not do whatever it was he was doing if you didn't implement his "suggestions" aka godawful shit that only a delusional ranged-only player with absolutely no grasp on basic game mechanics might think were ok. it doesnt matter how much he contributed, if his suggestions were bad they should have been ignored. i don't know what raylin did in terms of items, exactly, but i'm willing to bet theres someone else out there who can retexture rus scale models from 5 years ago. honestly if i were in charge i would have just banned him the instant he started threatening to leave if his suggestions were ignored. like really, read this sentence back to yourself: "announced that he will take matters into his own hands and think about playing significantly less if the community were to reject his changes" why did you listen to this ape?

also re turnrate nerf, i dare you to find a post from a top 10% melee player supporting it, the only people who ever thought it was a good idea were the trashcans that lost duels with jumping pikemen

I'd rather have a calm objective bad paying item balancer than a shortsighted tryharding minmaxer

badplayer is responsible for a lot of good balance changes, and he repeatedly called for nerfs to heavy cav even when he was crutching heavy cav on battle for months on end

[Gravoth_iii]

(click to show/hide)

I throw down the gauntlet and demand to be made an item balancer.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Isnt that like the average cav K/D? *cough* nerf!*cough*

[Casul]

I dont see why archers and xbows are so extremly accurate, how on earth is that even somewhat realistic?  Why dont we make archery and xbows a bit stronger but less accurate how it actually should be.

That would solve a lot of problems, such as archers stopping shooting into melee fights and bagge like headshooting from like 100 meters