"Cologne sex attacks"

[Turkhammer]

its not taboo,  police that was there already stated whatever happened,  it seems police was anticipating trouble,  officers where even worried that people might die that night and asked for backup already before 11pm, as forces on site felt more and more aggravated because they could only do the bare minimum and not help everybody.  however those reinforcements where not granted.

in the aftermath even merkel is now saying that there is no place in germany for migrants not respecting women or our way of life.  consensus is that migrants not complying with the law shall be deported more quickly.

on a side note,  a lot of violence happend that night in my home town near cologne too,  a man got beat up infront of his house after asking migrants to stop throwing fireworks at his family,  a police car was attacked.  my brother was attacked by four people and cut with a knife a few days earlier,  and a friend of mine was robbed and beat up last night.

the fuck is going on.

I hope this does not spread to Pepe's street.  He's going to have to get stronk in a hurry.

[Xant]

I'd pay good money to watch Pepe attempt to deal with these guys by being "peaceful."

[Tibe]

In the case of general anti-immigration feelings I guess that you're right, but particular antipathy towards muslim refugees has to be based on some other/additional factor. I'm not sure if you should paint with the same brush people who are against all immigrants and people who are exclusively against muslim immigrants. Oberyn, isn't he only against muslims, not against any and all immigrants?

Its not really only about jobs. Refugees also burden the social system. As in grab benefits out of the hands of the common native people. What really pisses people off is the fact that atleast 70% of refugees arent really fleeing war, but their countries economic crysis and from them, atleast half are burdening the social system of the foreign country they choose to stay in, on purpose.

HOWEVER the hard fact is that the social system that shares too much(like in the Nordic) is in a brink of collapse in the West anyway. And thats due to low birth rates. No young people to compensate the high pensions etc. The immigrants are considered the saving grace in that department. Which is the reason of why Sweden just accepted everybody. Im assuming Swedens actual plan is to turn the immigrants into some kind of lower part of the society thats going to work for the pensions and benefits of their elderly etc. So it doesnt really matter that much anyway. No immigrants, it collapses. Immigrants who just take, but wont work, still collapses.

[Molly]

I'd like to clarify 3 things:

As long as none of your beloved getting hurt...
But in the end you are behaving like a ignorant piece of something. Because people all around are starting to suffer by this dirtbags and then calling for endless liberalism is just as stupid as damning all immigrants.
People like you are what makes a big anti-islamic movement necessary.

You're an idiot and you obviously didn't read the thread, especially not my recent posts. Go away.

Then Torben wrote that there is no way to send refugees away after committing a crime. That statement is not entirely true. The hurdle is just very high. Too high in my opinion.
The State is allowed to deport an immigrant/refugee if he/she commits a crime that is punished with 3 years jail time or more. Certainly should be lower and should include certain k.o. criterias which allow instant refusal of the current status of immigration and instant deportation (e.g. rape, paedophilia and similar stuff).

Then Tibe wrote about self-defence laws in Northern countries. Probably not meaning Germany directly but I do feel that German laws are okay.
When you are attacked, you are allowed to defend your life and health with adequate force.
When you witness a crime, you are allowed to temporarily fixate the criminal until the police arrives with adequate force. It's the so called "Jedermanns Recht" ("Everybody's right").

Tho the interpretation of adequate force is something you could stumble over.
Starting with the easier case of fixation of a criminal. Adequate force means here that you are allowed to use force to hold the guy down. You don't wanna hit him tho. Imagine it as a grappling match, wrestling of sorts. Punching is bad. You might get lucky and nobody says anything with just 1 hit, like stop him from running away. But that's it. Still, it's reasonable. It's not your job to hunt him down anyway. You get a chance to grab him - fine. Everything else is the police's job.
I know several people, working the door of clubs, who got into issues with the law in this department but in 90% it's okay. You have to overdo it quite a lot to get into trouble.

Now, threat to life and health is tricky. And it would take too long to describe properly but let me say this much: killing the attacker is always very bad news cuz it's hard to verify the "I had no choice." Even breaking limbs is a problem.

And then there is a big differentiation between trained and untrained people. Untrained people are basically okay to use more force while trained people are granted lower reaction times for affect for example.

[Oberyn]

its not taboo,  police that was there already stated whatever happened,  it seems police was anticipating trouble,  officers where even worried that people might die that night and asked for backup already before 11pm, as forces on site felt more and more aggravated because they could only do the bare minimum and not help everybody.  however those reinforcements where not granted.

in the aftermath even merkel is now saying that there is no place in germany for migrants not respecting women or our way of life.  consensus is that migrants not complying with the law shall be deported more quickly.

on a side note,  a lot of violence happend that night in my home town near cologne too,  a man got beat up infront of his house after asking migrants to stop throwing fireworks at his family,  a police car was attacked.  my brother was attacked by four people and cut with a knife a few days earlier,  and a friend of mine was robbed and beat up last night.

the fuck is going on.

Same thing that's been going on for years, but galvanized. I find it interesting how few places even mentioned the violence against german men, as if getting surrounded by a dozen migrants and getting the shit beat out of you was so trivial and common as to not be mentioned. Not that I'm blaming them, there is undeniable media attraction in the plea and suffering of women getting violently harassed and groped by worthless animals. If it finally opens some of the useful idiots's eyes so much the better.

[Ikarus]

Then Torben wrote that there is no way to send refugees away after committing a crime. That statement is not entirely true. The hurdle is just very high. Too high in my opinion.

too damn high indeed, did you read the same article? 
http://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2016-01/koeln-bahnhof-uebergriffe-taeter-opfer-strafen-strafrecht-abschiebung

You have to overdo it quite a lot to get into trouble.

Yes and thats interesting: In case of sexual harassment like that, you´re actually pretty much allowed to give that guy a good beating (as long as there is some major resistance). I did not know that you were that well protected in that case.
quote from the article (german)

(click to show/hide)

Die betroffene Frau ist aber auch heute schon nicht schutzlos gestellt. Sie und ihr zu Hilfe eilende Menschen dürfen sich mit dem schneidigen Schwert der Notwehr verteidigen und den Täter wenn notwendig auch erheblich verletzen.

[Torben]

Its not really only about jobs. Refugees also burden the social system. As in grab benefits out of the hands of the common native people. What really pisses people off is the fact that atleast 70% of refugees arent really fleeing war, but their countries economic crysis and from them, atleast half are burdening the social system of the foreign country they choose to stay in, on purpose.

HOWEVER the hard fact is that the social system that shares too much(like in the Nordic) is in a brink of collapse in the West anyway. And thats due to low birth rates. No young people to compensate the high pensions etc. The immigrants are considered the saving grace in that department. Which is the reason of why Sweden just accepted everybody. Im assuming Swedens actual plan is to turn the immigrants into some kind of lower part of the society thats going to work for the pensions and benefits of their elderly etc. So it doesnt really matter that much anyway. No immigrants, it collapses. Immigrants who just take, but wont work, still collapses.

actually migrants who flee economic disaster and come to germany willing to work benefit the state after about three years,  which is a good investment for my country.  problematic are the people who come to not work.  but,  they are a great minority of the economic migrants.  unfortunately our system is not effective in getting rid of those few, which feels highly unfair.

Then Torben wrote that there is no way to send refugees away after committing a crime. That statement is not entirely true. The hurdle is just very high. Too high in my opinion.
The State is allowed to deport an immigrant/refugee if he/she commits a crime that is punished with 3 years jail time or more. Certainly should be lower and should include certain k.o. criterias which allow instant refusal of the current status of immigration and instant deportation (e.g. rape, paedophilia and similar stuff).

I never wrote there was no way,  I stated that the bureaucratic process of gaining asylum is not connected to any potential criminal activity,  which is ludicrous.  being a shoplifter should have negative influence on the process etc etc.

Same thing that's been going on for years, but galvanized. I find it interesting how few places even mentioned the violence against german men, as if getting surrounded by a dozen migrants and getting the shit beat out of you was so trivial and common as to not be mentioned. Not that I'm blaming them, there is undeniable media attraction in the plea and suffering of women getting violently harassed and groped by worthless animals. If it finally opens some of the useful idiots's eyes so much the better.

the buddy of mine who got attacked is actually a fifty something year old german of turkish origin, a waiter  who was on his way home from work.

all in all I have been confronted with many crimes in my life,  from getting beaten up by a polish teenager when I was ten (his arabic friend actually jumped in and stopped him from continuously punching me), over witnessing a bunch of big brawls (btw have never seen a german punch or kick people on the floor or pull a knife,  only know that from russians and middle eastern/north african folks),  my best female friend being raped and beaten half dead by two turks, two other female friends being raped while drugged.
 Seriously,  two school friends of mine, one a tunisian,  became a highly respected professor for islamic whatever at a german university, a great guy, while our other friend became a gangster rapper and got jail time for robbing a gold transport. I have seen my heap of shit.

But now I live fucking 600km away from home and hear about more  crimes of higher violence in just three months then in twenty years before.

I am literally scared for my folks up there,  and dread the upcoming karneval. 

Guess Ill go as batman.

[Ikarus]

all in all I have been confronted with many crimes in my life,  from getting beaten up by a polish teenager when I was ten (his arabic friend actually jumped in and stopped him from continuously punching me), over witnessing a bunch of big brawls (btw have never seen a german punch or kick people on the floor or pull a knife,  only know that from russians and middle eastern/north african folks),  my best female friend being raped and beaten half dead by two turks, two other female friends being raped while drugged.

holy shit torben where the hell did you grow up?

[Oberyn]

Europe. Welcome to reality. None of what he said surprises me in the least.

[Paul]

Guess Ill go as batman.

noice

[Torben]

holy shit torben where the hell did you grow up?

near cologne.  on rape:  it happens way more often then most of us think.  many women just wont talk about it because its fucking traumatic and humiliating.

[Christo]

pretty much

[AntiBlitz]

I thought you Yuropans lived in some sort of Utopia, wha hapen?

[Torben]

I guess the idea of Europe is great.  The reality is whatever is possible within a world ruled by humans. 

European principles are beautiful,  but we are hypocrites. 

[Paul]

I thought you Yuropans lived in some sort of Utopia, wha hapen?

Someone decided to attack Iraq.