Reduce ranged damage to horses

[Larvae]

The problem isnt the dmg of archers,that is already nerfed to the ground,to be able to do some dmg u need to go for 27/18 or even more str as u are also unable to run away even with an agi build because we got ironarrows with a bag of it and a total weight of 10 kg per bag....

cav is also still good,was it always.in the old days of crpg we had alot more ppl playing on eu1 so cav could charge from behind and side and so on.there wasnt the focus only on them.

and meele is what it ever was,allround class,use a shield and u are safe from archers,use a polearm and no horse will harm u and so on...

we need just more players on eu1,maybe bring bots in each team?!

also the dmg of all bows is nerfed,i use the yumi and need 3-4 arrows with 9 pd to kill a medium/heavy armored guy^^ ( all bows below the normal bow is a waste,u cant kill shit with it)

[Hirlok]

Even after this mod dies off completely one day there will be whispers and whining in the shadows of those restless souls that could not stand a decent tickling with arrows...

Tl;dr version:

#NOjustNO

[Algarn]

The problem isnt the dmg of archers,that is already nerfed to the ground,to be able to do some dmg u need to go for 27/18 or even more str as u are also unable to run away even with an agi build because we got ironarrows with a bag of it and a total weight of 10 kg per bag....

cav is also still good,was it always.in the old days of crpg we had alot more ppl playing on eu1 so cav could charge from behind and side and so on.there wasnt the focus only on them.

and meele is what it ever was,allround class,use a shield and u are safe from archers,use a polearm and no horse will harm u and so on...

we need just more players on eu1,maybe bring bots in each team?!

also the dmg of all bows is nerfed,i use the yumi and need 3-4 arrows with 9 pd to kill a medium/heavy armored guy^^ ( all bows below the normal bow is a waste,u cant kill shit with it)

But archers are so powerful, even if they have to invest all their points into archery and PD to deal some damage, even if they can't run because they'll get caught by plated guys with 8 ATHL, even if they can't do shit at melee, and even if they've mostly wearing low weight armors to keep their accuracy. People just can't realize the only damaging archers are glass canons, with little to no survivability when they're getting too close of a fight.

[Rebelyell]

I think you get that all wrong, It is more about difference between light and heavy horses and survivability they provide. If there is one or 2 arrow difference on kill between some heavy slow horse and fast and agile one It can really rise questions if it is worth of that trade off.
/imo

[BlackxBird]

But archers are so powerful, even if they have to invest all their points into archery and PD to deal some damage, even if they can't run because they'll get caught by plated guys with 8 ATHL, even if they can't do shit at melee, and even if they've mostly wearing low weight armors to keep their accuracy. People just can't realize the only damaging archers are glass canons, with little to no survivability when they're getting too close of a fight.

pff QQ archery so weak, cav so op. I've tried archery for like 3 weeks. If u focus for cavalry you should be imo scoreleader. I even did 200+ points on an open map, and hell Im actually pretty bad at it . It's just so fucking easy to dismount riders. Even over more than 70 meters u can shoot so fucking accurate to dismount a cav without any problems.. And actually Ive noticed that it is pretty easy to kill enemies in melee as archer.

[Godfredus]

Actually, I see another way of solving the underpowered cavalry vs. overpowered archer problem with no changing any stats, but tweaking a little the gameplay.
I mean, look: cavalry supposed to scare enemies, destroy ranged from front and infantry from behind or flanks.

There's no problem with infantry vs cavalry fighting: great lance, even with nerfed to the ground cav, still outreach most melee weapons as it should do, and do great damage as it should do. And pikes are still destroying almost any cav with stopping it for a gangbang.
There's no real problem with dodging against ranged on a great distance cause most archers are more busy with enemy infantry that surely will slice them in pieces right after dealing with other infantry.
There's no problem with throwing damage on short distance cause throwing is supposed to do big damage on short distances.
There's no problem with cavalry vs crossbows, even it's crossbow that can oneshoot a simple horse at head, because engaged crossbowman with unloaded crossbow is forced to play as infantry or run, as it was in reality.

The problem is that archers mostly are not afraid of cavalry as they should be.
Because engaged archer can run around and shoot impotent to hurt them the rider and horse to death in a few shots from 2-4 meters, or even few cm.
Engaged archers (mostly, if the rider's not a pro and the archer is not a noob) are not forced nor fighting melee, nor running for their lives.

What I suggest is forcing archers (because of their shooting speed at their run&shoot ability) fighting melee against cavalry (or run) if cavalry engaged archer.
There's a simple way of it. We got a system that gives +1 shield skill if several shielders hold their shields close to each other.
Let archers get their some -10 power draw skill if there is a mounted enemy really close to them, if that's possible. That will put crossbowmen and archers on the same ground when countering cav, btw. Also, that will represent the disturbing feature of cavalry in behind.

(click to show/hide)

Also, gieb rolling over ability for dehorsed horsemen.

[Tristan_of_Erzoth]

I've been playing a bit as a one hand cav and it is pretty frusturating when my Arabian horse gets one hit from across the map from a single arrow. Guess thats just the way the cookie crumbles though

[Gravoth_iii]

I've been playing a bit as a one hand cav and it is pretty frusturating when my Arabian horse gets one hit from across the map from a single arrow. Guess thats just the way the cookie crumbles though

But the arabian is so fucking maneuverable, definitely the most potential for mass slaughter. Would it get buffed, it would just be silly strong. I still think that heavy horses are good too, less thinking. Its very similar to light infantry vs heavy, its a tradeoff with potential for points, vs less brain usage. Allthough that doesnt by any means make the less potential not able to top any scoreboards.

pff QQ archery so weak, cav so op. I've tried archery for like 3 weeks. If u focus for cavalry you should be imo scoreleader. I even did 200+ points on an open map, and hell Im actually pretty bad at it . It's just so fucking easy to dismount riders. Even over more than 70 meters u can shoot so fucking accurate to dismount a cav without any problems.. And actually Ive noticed that it is pretty easy to kill enemies in melee as archer.

He never said cav is op, he said archery is a glass cannon build. Archery requires full stat distribution, damn near. Cav on the otherhand, not so much. Which is the more dominant class? still cav. Why do people want archery nerfed? Because apparently they are without counters and nearly unbeatable. When people die to cav, they think oh i shouldve paid more attention then i wouldve survived. When people die to archery they think that it was an unavoidable death.

[Umbra]

Dont reduce it. Ranged are the only thing keeping cavalry somewhat in check. Even with this damage cav still dominates.

[Larvae]

before u nerf archers again,give horses omewhat more armor or hp,but then there will be still cav players complaining about archery^^

[Mr.K.]

Why do people want archery nerfed? Because apparently they are without counters and nearly unbeatable. When people die to cav, they think oh i shouldve paid more attention then i wouldve survived. When people die to archery they think that it was an unavoidable death.

This and the fact that it takes 1/10th of the time investment to become a decent archer compared to decent melee or even decent cavalryman.

Atm anything besides the Arabian gokart and Courser is a waste and that's poor balancing. Then there's the other problem that high levels allow cavalry players to be perfectly viable in melee as well. All wpf on polearm, take a heavy lance plus a swordstaff/poleaxe/any-other-op-pole. Heck you can even bring a buckler to hoplite against cavalry when you get dismounted... Nerfing levels or increasing the riding requirements by two while reducing the positive effects of having more riding should fix that.

And bring back 1h cav. It's utterly useless atm and no one plays it from what I've seen... Used to counter lancers quite nicely and kept the balance of powers in check. Yes it used to be OP, but the amount of nerfs it got was just too much.

[Larvae]

So many players are willing to spend hours and hours of practice until blocking becomes a 2nd nature, and practice feints and holds in melee. But never even try to learn how to predict or avoid the path of an arrow, it's not hard.

Or I'm playing a map as a shielder and I'm getting my shield chucked full of arrows without a single loss of health and I'm seeing people in chat saying 'pfff, shield isn't even a decent counter to ranged anymore...', y'what? I'm standing right there, countering ranged, eating their ammo and maintaining full health until they run out of ammo, choose another target or are forced into melee with me.

for that ppl should learn to invest more than 3-4 points in shieldskill.
with less ur shield will break soon because of high str build archery^^

btw nerf throwinglances dmg or speed or both in meele,those are annoying if they insta-switch between ranged and meele^^

[Sandersson Jankins]

Only played sporadically recently, but my +3 Barded doesn't seem to take obscene amounts of damage from ranged. I can mostly mitigate received damage from using proper movement, keeping in mind speed bonuses. Sure, some guy with a throwing lance or a heavier crossbow is gonna be rather likely to hit me, especially if I have mistakenly gotten too close to them, without any sort of surprise. But all I've got to do is either cease most movement, or even better, move laterally and away from them. I've seen motherfuckers hit my horse with a throwing lance for less than 1/6 total HP the past few days, given I've got the presence of mind to make smart evasive movements.

And for fuck's sake, I play a 24/18 pure 1h/no shield cav build for the funsies. I use my horse AS a shield, and I don't reckon ranged even hurts me very much.

[Algarn]

Only played sporadically recently, but my +3 Barded doesn't seem to take obscene amounts of damage from ranged. I can mostly mitigate received damage from using proper movement, keeping in mind speed bonuses. Sure, some guy with a throwing lance or a heavier crossbow is gonna be rather likely to hit me, especially if I have mistakenly gotten too close to them, without any sort of surprise. But all I've got to do is either cease most movement, or even better, move laterally and away from them. I've seen motherfuckers hit my horse with a throwing lance for less than 1/6 total HP the past few days, given I've got the presence of mind to make smart evasive movements.

And for fuck's sake, I play a 24/18 pure 1h/no shield cav build for the funsies. I use my horse AS a shield, and I don't reckon ranged even hurts me very much.

Don't tell these poor lads the truth, they need something to believe in, like archery being overpowered in 2015.

Archery is just fine as it is.

[Mr.K.]

Don't tell these poor lads the truth, they need something to believe in, like archery being overpowered in 2015.

Archery is just fine as it is.

What truth? It's a fact that a pure archer build will kill +3 arabian with zero speedbonus even with bodkin arrows. It's also a fact that you can kill a medium horse with two arrows even with bodkins. The problem here is that the arabian can avoid arrows quite easily compared to a large warhorse for example, making the latter completely useless. The other problem is that it makes archery the only class in game without actual hard counters other than maybe crossbows.

Imo archery is slightly overpowered against infantry as well, but that's really a discussion for another topic.