Decided to try out Mounted ranged... Horse Archer

[Krax]

I hate to say this, but you come off as the kind of a dick. It doesn't surprise me in the least that you're the type to only worry about his own fun and noone else's.

Ok so your what ? a care giving old grandmom that want everyone to get along and have a good time while the shoot flowers at one another.... farting rainbows and make hugballs.

[owens]

Krax you are being a dick

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Like seriously man cool your jets. No one wants to read angry rants from some hyped flog.

Horse ranged kills servers and should either be made playable but absurdly expensive/weak/inaccurate or..... not be playable at all.

[ROHYPNOL]

Haha, I like this guy. I never claimed to speak for the whole community, but having played this mod for 5 years, I do have an idea on what most people think.

Killing a horse archer does come with some amount of catharsis, but only because it's the most annoying thing in the game to play against. Is this the only defense of horse archery as a class? That it's fun to kill cunts?

BTW Rohy isn't a horse archer main, he plays gimmick builds with his friends and this is the one gimmick build that hasn't dominated, hence the whine thread.

I love playing horse archery in other mods + single player, because it's fun and it's zero risk high reward. Not a good combination when people's multipliers are on the line and the whole server sits in spectator for 5 minutes while one horse archer circles around.

So you say I play gimmick builds, but here in this thread where we are talking about HA. Now you call it a class and a gimmick build? This is not a whine thread, this is a buff thread. If you got to say something towards the balance of it other than "It makes the community whine" then I would love to hear it? I get so much whine every time I get on the server with literally every build. The response normally is "his build is OP". I really don't understand some in this community that was to nerf something just because they are upset rather than it actually being OP, cmon your fucking the game over.

[Jona]

So let me get this clear... you saying that its a good thing that a class is way underpowered ?

It is actually very common and encouraged that competitive multiplayer games have imbalance in them. I.e. the "noob tube" in CoD/Battlefield games is very easy to use so that even the noobs can get kills with it, although once you become more skilled at the game you realize that there are better options available. In crpg, if HA was easy enough so that any random schmuck could pick it up and be cancer to the rest of the server on day 1, then this mod would surely be even less popular than it currently is. HA is a class that takes dedication and time* to become skilled enough where you can get that valor each round, and that is a good thing. Just because you have extensive experience at being a plated up long mauler, or plated up cav, or super agi my old friend xbow doesn't mean you will  be able to be a top tier HA immediately. Look at Kojiro... he was able to farm valor even during the 15 damage cap days. Conversely, when he did play a melee build, he was relatively awful since all of his crpg skill was in HA. All I see in this thread are barely-dedicated HA's who think they can top the scoreboards after playing it for a few hours every other week.

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*It takes dedication and time being gay, that is.

 

[ROHYPNOL]

It is actually very common and encouraged that competitive multiplayer games have imbalance in them. I.e. the "noob tube" in CoD/Battlefield games is very easy to use so that even the noobs can get kills with it, although once you become more skilled at the game you realize that there are better options available. In crpg, if HA was easy enough so that any random schmuck could pick it up and be cancer to the rest of the server on day 1, then this mod would surely be even less popular than it currently is. HA is a class that takes dedication and time* to become skilled enough where you can get that valor each round, and that is a good thing. Just because you have extensive experience at being a plated up long mauler, or plated up cav, or super agi my old friend xbow doesn't mean you will  be able to be a top tier HA immediately. Look at Kojiro... he was able to farm valor even during the 15 damage cap days. Conversely, when he did play a melee build, he was relatively awful since all of his crpg skill was in HA. All I see in this thread are barely-dedicated HA's who think they can top the scoreboards after playing it for a few hours every other week.

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*It takes dedication and time being gay, that is.

I believe I am top tier at it actually, and I can top points in the server while getting 0 kills or a few, because it is that hard. I have experience at every build in this game and continue to top over everyone in the server with every one of them. Please don't even mention Kojiro, he has been doing the shit forever and has ALWAYS been complete trash at it. Now that you have mentioned 4 builds in the past month and I constantly topped with all of them every map.. Now what is your excuse? I believe my opinion is highly qualified in the fact that I can do everything very well while most continue to play the same thing for years to get good with it.

[Gravoth_iii]

Horse ranged kills servers and should either be made playable but absurdly expensive/weak/inaccurate or..... not be playable at all.

I really dont think it does. It used to, surely, but now there are means to fight it, and so delaying is stopped, and server survives. Delaying has always been the issue with horse ranged, because you either needed friendly ranged or to simply have patience. They were basically never a threat on their own, and since like 5+ patchest ive considered them as basically the lowest point of threat, where bumping is their only weapon.

I rage quit more to melee cav than range cav because instead of 20 hits, they can need only 1 or 2. They can delay just as much, but with actual potential of winning, and even flags arent a safe bet as they are very strong dismounted too. Horse ranged seriously has nothing right now, absolutely nothing.

[owens]

I kind of agree with you gravoth.

However I can't remember a time since 2011 when horse ranged was fair on the rest of the server.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Dear Krax and friends,

Boy, I nearly had a heart attack from being unable to post in this thread yesterday. I could feel my blood pressure steadily increasing to a fever pitch.

Anyway, let me try one last time to succinctly explain the position of myself, Duster, and others. I feel that no comprehension of our stance has taken place; only perception of "anyone who plays HA should kill themselves no we arent buffing it just remove it ffs" has been reached.

My top priority with any changes to this mod is increased player population. Specifically, I'd like increased skilled melee population. But to make it simple, more motherfuckers in the server on average is my very top priority.

I believe that increasing power of HA will AT LEAST stifle the slow growth of the mod's population, if not decrease it. It doesn't matter to me the magnitude of the decrease; only that it occurs. If you disagree with me on this point, that is fine. Please understand that all I am doing it attempting to properly convey the position I hold. I am not attempting to convince anyone of anything. In fact, I'd say such a thing is a complete fool's errand. Anyone posting in cRPGs public balance forums in 2015 is going to have a pretty set mind.

(click to show/hide)

ITS 2015 PEOPLE, COME ON!
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I do not feel that ranged cavalry is overpowered. I agree with you that it is significantly more difficult to make a large, game-changing impact on a round with ranged cavalry than it is with armoured infantry. And I agree with you that, in order to achieve better balance, ranged cavalry should be made more powerful. Buffed.

However, as previously stated, my priority IS NOT balance. My priority is increased player population. I'm sick of 40 people in NA1 on evenings, 10 of which aren't even a contest to kill. Just memers running around in shirts n' shit.

And AGAIN, feel completely free to disagree and tell me that increased power to ranged cavalry will either do nothing, or god forbid, actually improve server population. That's fine.

It just seems to me that Krax and a couple others simply cannot fathom that someone would not hold perfect balance to be the top concern for changes in cRPG. Like, the shit doesn't compute.

I really am sorry to all those players that either have HA/HX/HT(lol) as a main class, or are relatively unable to perform well with other classes. I don't have anything against you personally.

(click to show/hide)

okay, maybe a little against you, you scummy shits

It's just that my own fun is tied to server population. I'm not holding this position because I'm a utilitarian saint that wants the largest possible amount of players to have fun. I do want that, but that's not why I'm posting.

I'm posting because I want more people to kill, damnit!

[Gravoth_iii]

(click to show/hide)

Dear Krax and friends,

Boy, I nearly had a heart attack from being unable to post in this thread yesterday. I could feel my blood pressure steadily increasing to a fever pitch.

Anyway, let me try one last time to succinctly explain the position of myself, Duster, and others. I feel that no comprehension of our stance has taken place; only perception of "anyone who plays HA should kill themselves no we arent buffing it just remove it ffs" has been reached.

My top priority with any changes to this mod is increased player population. Specifically, I'd like increased skilled melee population. But to make it simple, more motherfuckers in the server on average is my very top priority.

I believe that increasing power of HA will AT LEAST stifle the slow growth of the mod's population, if not decrease it. It doesn't matter to me the magnitude of the decrease; only that it occurs. If you disagree with me on this point, that is fine. Please understand that all I am doing it attempting to properly convey the position I hold. I am not attempting to convince anyone of anything. In fact, I'd say such a thing is a complete fool's errand. Anyone posting in cRPGs public balance forums in 2015 is going to have a pretty set mind.

(click to show/hide)

ITS 2015 PEOPLE, COME ON!
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

I do not feel that ranged cavalry is overpowered. I agree with you that it is significantly more difficult to make a large, game-changing impact on a round with ranged cavalry than it is with armoured infantry. And I agree with you that, in order to achieve better balance, ranged cavalry should be made more powerful. Buffed.

However, as previously stated, my priority IS NOT balance. My priority is increased player population. I'm sick of 40 people in NA1 on evenings, 10 of which aren't even a contest to kill. Just memers running around in shirts n' shit.

And AGAIN, feel completely free to disagree and tell me that increased power to ranged cavalry will either do nothing, or god forbid, actually improve server population. That's fine.

It just seems to me that Krax and a couple others simply cannot fathom that someone would not hold perfect balance to be the top concern for changes in cRPG. Like, the shit doesn't compute.

I really am sorry to all those players that either have HA/HX/HT(lol) as a main class, or are relatively unable to perform well with other classes. I don't have anything against you personally.

(click to show/hide)

okay, maybe a little against you, you scummy shits

It's just that my own fun is tied to server population. I'm not holding this position because I'm a utilitarian saint that wants the largest possible amount of players to have fun. I do want that, but that's not why I'm posting.

I'm posting because I want more people to kill, damnit!

I dont think any class makes slows the growth of the game (its damn near non-existant to begin with), but basically removing someones favourite class from the game does make people quit. See 2h thrust nerf for example, people left.

[Sandersson Jankins]

I dont think any class makes slows the growth of the game (its damn near non-existant to begin with), but basically removing someones favourite class from the game does make people quit. See 2h thrust nerf for example, people left.

The first part we're simply forced to disagree with eachother on. Of course there isn't a source of relevant data to use for sources; all of this from both sides is personal experience and perception, anyway. Neither of us can force the other to submit without data or sources!

Still, my personal experience has shown me explicitly that any more than very small numbers of certain things present in a server will negatively affect player population in the short run. I then make the reasonable assumption that repeated instances of these things will have a negative effect on player population in the long term, as well. Regularly in the past I've seen NA1 begin to become heavily populated (50-60) people, only for a group of only 3-4 dedicated HA/HX begin to play. Historically, the server was very prone to dying out at that point, with only the die-hard 20-30 remaining instead of steady growth to high pop levels.

This doesn't happen because a mystical horse archer clan comes and dominates the server with banner balance. It doesn't even happen because people get mad at being damaged/killed by HA. At least, that isn't the main cause for depopulation.

The main problem is that the larger the ranged cav population becomes, the higher chance there will be 1 or more ranged cavalry that end every single round possible with flags, which are very often bugged themselves, or otherwise remain in play for as long as possible. This is not fun. This results in a period of idling (or alt-tabbing or playing other games, but for fuck sake that isn't a justification for this, JUST ALT TAB LMAO come on) for a period that many players will not tolerate. It ain't fun. It's fucking ANTI-FUN.

When the last few players are melee, and skilled in teamwork or technique I find it a treat to spectate the end of the round. I love watching duels, teamwork, all of it.

If the last few players, or player is ranged cavalry, I am treated to the wonderful experience of watching a guy on a horse kite folks. Not exciting.



I'll agree with you that heavily nerfing or radically changing a playstyle, mechanic, or stat will result in the loss of players highly dedicated to that change. You're fully right on that.

Even so, I feel that the amount and quality(call me a cunt for that one if you wish) of players NA would lose (after all, I can't generalize anything to EU since I play there highly infrequently) from failing to change/buff ranged cavalry to be significantly lower than would be lost from buffing it.

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lol at my walls of text, fucking third shift and ranged cav discussion triggers muh 'tism

[Krax]

ok one question.... since your main reason for nerfing the class into the ground is "HA/HX are assholes"

whats keeping me from being a dick now vs pre nerf and i dont see how making it take longer to kill someone make the round end faster.

PS whats the reason to keep the +50% reload speed of HX that just show you never really looked at it with balance in mind

[Nightingale]

ok one question.... since your main reason for nerfing the class into the ground is "HA/HX are assholes"

whats keeping me from being a dick now vs pre nerf and i dont see how making it take longer to kill someone make the round end faster.

PS whats the reason to keep the +50% reload speed of HX that just show you never really looked at it with balance in mind

His argument isn't nerf or buff but that of sustainability of server population; continuing to argue balance with him will just not go anywhere. I can't disagree or agree with his assumptions as there is little or no evidence to support his claim that Horse demons = less population; and maybe I'm weird but I enjoy watching a skilled HA/HX preform.

[Gravoth_iii]

and maybe I'm weird but I enjoy watching a skilled HA/HX preform.

I too enjoy watching people play really well, no matter the class.

[Krax]

His argument isn't nerf or buff but that of sustainability of server population; continuing to argue balance with him will just not go anywhere. I can't disagree or agree with his assumptions as there is little or no evidence to support his claim that Horse demons = less population; and maybe I'm weird but I enjoy watching a skilled HA/HX preform.

My point where more that the nerfs have augmentet what he trys to move em away from really.

[ROHYPNOL]

Dear Krax and friends,

Boy, I nearly had a heart attack from being unable to post in this thread yesterday. I could feel my blood pressure steadily increasing to a fever pitch.

Anyway, let me try one last time to succinctly explain the position of myself, Duster, and others. I feel that no comprehension of our stance has taken place; only perception of "anyone who plays HA should kill themselves no we arent buffing it just remove it ffs" has been reached.

My top priority with any changes to this mod is increased player population. Specifically, I'd like increased skilled melee population. But to make it simple, more motherfuckers in the server on average is my very top priority.

I believe that increasing power of HA will AT LEAST stifle the slow growth of the mod's population, if not decrease it. It doesn't matter to me the magnitude of the decrease; only that it occurs. If you disagree with me on this point, that is fine. Please understand that all I am doing it attempting to properly convey the position I hold. I am not attempting to convince anyone of anything. In fact, I'd say such a thing is a complete fool's errand. Anyone posting in cRPGs public balance forums in 2015 is going to have a pretty set mind.

(click to show/hide)

ITS 2015 PEOPLE, COME ON!
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

I do not feel that ranged cavalry is overpowered. I agree with you that it is significantly more difficult to make a large, game-changing impact on a round with ranged cavalry than it is with armoured infantry. And I agree with you that, in order to achieve better balance, ranged cavalry should be made more powerful. Buffed.

However, as previously stated, my priority IS NOT balance. My priority is increased player population. I'm sick of 40 people in NA1 on evenings, 10 of which aren't even a contest to kill. Just memers running around in shirts n' shit.

And AGAIN, feel completely free to disagree and tell me that increased power to ranged cavalry will either do nothing, or god forbid, actually improve server population. That's fine.

It just seems to me that Krax and a couple others simply cannot fathom that someone would not hold perfect balance to be the top concern for changes in cRPG. Like, the shit doesn't compute.

I really am sorry to all those players that either have HA/HX/HT(lol) as a main class, or are relatively unable to perform well with other classes. I don't have anything against you personally.

(click to show/hide)

okay, maybe a little against you, you scummy shits

It's just that my own fun is tied to server population. I'm not holding this position because I'm a utilitarian saint that wants the largest possible amount of players to have fun. I do want that, but that's not why I'm posting.

I'm posting because I want more people to kill, damnit!

I do agree with you, but with all the nerfs, is what caused people to quit in the first place. This could be 1 of many buffs of many other classes to bring back the fun. No one is enjoying getting on NA_1 and all you have to fight is these fucking xbowers and plaine jane melee players all doing the same shit. Everything is very simplistic, not like it used to be, where several things could be enjoyable. Unfortunately a couple bad game balancers decided to nerf literally EVERYTHING and ruined the damn MOD. I do like your point and I do agree, it just needs a buff to make it useful, and not saying it has to go back to like it used to be. But in all honesty you might as well take the class out because its so shitty.