Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)

[Xant]

Come on there must be some statistics somewhere on how many criminals, intruders ect are actually shot by 'law abiding' citizens (cba to google myself). As I said previously I suspect it may be a very low number. You'd have to have a very small sense of self preservation to turn a gun on an intruder (who also has a gun) with a 50-50 chance of coming out on top and expect to win. I suspect most gun owning law abiding citizens probably shit their pants and hide/let them take whatever/call the police rather than use a weapon.

As I said before if you cut off the legal supply you'll also eventually limit the illegal supply due to confiscations and lack of gun thefts to keep the supply chain going.

But hell no propaganda on how everyone needs a gun to protect themselves from those wild free roaming gun toating criminals is clearly the more sensible course.

Funnily enough the President is a high profile target. The average family, no one gives a shit about.

Statistics aren't a shield. Who gives a fuck about what "most gun owners" do, whether they shit their pants or don't like the "50-50" chance of coming out on top? Then they were unprepared, so what? No one should be allowed to defend themselves because "some gun owners" are cowards?

Point being, people are unpredictable, and I'd rather have a chance at stopping the threat than no chance at stopping the threat.

Exactly this. But people like Overdriven and Heskey would rather give the power to the criminal, let them decide what they want to do -- rape your wife in front of you? Well, no problem, I mean, after all, that was statistically rather improbable, have a good one, guys. Shoot her in the head after they're done? No biggie, no biggie, most gun owners would have been too scared to act anyway, just try to make it quick, alright? Kill you after that to leave no witnesses? Ah well, if y'all think that's necessary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wichita_Massacre

In the end what it comes down to is that some people are born to be victims and apparently happy with that state of affairs. And others won't be victims, and will especially make sure that the people they care about aren't going to be victims.

[Clockworkkiller]

Nope, I gave 2 clear scenarios:

1. You have a loaded gun under your pillow, if someone randomly decides to enter your house at night and murder you for no reason as in your post you wake up and can shoot at any perpetrators 'BLAM BLAM BLAM i'm so cool!' The downside is... YOU HAVE A FUCKING LOADED GUN UNDER YOUR PILLOW, which is retarded. All those news stories of kids shooting themselves/their friends/their parents are a result of that level of irresponsibility. But hey, if someone wants to assassinate you for no reason, you're ready! Which is more likely?
2. You are a responsible gun owner, you have a gun 'for protection' but it's locked away in a place where you'd never have time to get it/load it if someone randomly decided to murder you in the night. In which case you wasted your money mate cos that gun's no fucking use. The upside is no accidental shootings, you only die if someone decides to assassinate you for no reason (hey, sometimes shit happens, but which is more likely?)

You seem to be obsessed with a scenario that's *never* going to happen, and in preparing for it you pose a far greater risk to your friends and family in the form of a scenario that's *probably* never going to happen. Statistically speaking it's unlikely that you'll have a domestic gun accident if you're reasonably responsible, but it's still far far far more likely that a wayward murderer deciding to break into your house and assassinate you for no reason.

See my above comment. Also, have you even held a gun let alone seen one in real life? They don't just go off on their own. Mag loaded, with the chamber clear is extremely safe

[Jeade]

P.S: move out of your town as soon as you can. Things aren't going to get better.

I moved out of Normandy, MO a few years ago.
It's Ferguson's neighbor, so you can figure that one out.

If he would've only had access to a knife it would have been a lot harder to stab that girl out the window as apposed to shooting her as he did. Especially if she took a step or two backwards.....What about if he charge out of the front door of his house you say!??!?!?!?!!!

It would be especially difficult if the girl could s key faster than the boy could run forward - and I know how that feels.

On a serious note, disregard the window and imagine had the boy been outside.
It's not any more unbelievable in my mind that the boy could have easily walked up and stabbed her when she wasn't looking.
The unfortunate thing is that any of this shit is believable in the first place.
Stabbings and beatings happen and are still more prevalent than shootings in some places.

If they're small-time crooks looking to steal your TV, in a world where guns are outlawed how are petty thieves going to get a gun easily? Not every junkie or petty thief has underworld connections, and if they had tons of cash they wouldn't need your TV/wallet. Sure, in a simplistic world where all crime is equal and every mugger is a kingpin then yeh the criminals will all still have guns. In a world where guns are restricted they become harder and more expensive to obtain, only criminals with money and certain connections can get them, that's more than your bog-standard home-invader's going to have.

Do remember, however, that almost all guns used in any sort of criminal activity here in the States are pistols.
That aside, banning guns will not make them disappear.
I think you may be under the impression that most - if not all - firearms here are registered to their owners, but that's not the case.
There are millions floating around.

Edit: Let me just say in bold that, if the US did not have 310 million firearms within its borders, banning guns would be an acceptable course of action.

[Xant]

And if the boy stabbed the girl instead? Would you propose banning kitchen knives?

[Zeltino]

And if the boy stabbed the girl instead? Would you propose banning kitchen knives?

Im pretty sure youre sort of missing the point

[Xant]

Im pretty sure youre sort of missing the point

Nope. You are.

[Grytviken]

Just like some people shouldn't have guns, some people shouldn't have kids. It's unfortunate but if all laws were based around the dumbest of fucks we'd be set back a couple thousand years.

[Xant]

Can a kitchen knife do anything other than kill or threaten to kill?
And can you easily kill someone accidentally with a kitchen knife, or without fully appreciating what it is you're doing at the time that you're doing it?

What does this have to do with the 11 year old boy killing the 8 year old girl? Either argue that case or stop trying to use it as leverage to support your point of view. But we both know you're just using it as an appeal to emotion, knowing it's neither here nor there when it comes to the gun debate.

[Zeltino]

What does this have to do with the 11 year old boy killing the 8 year old girl? Either argue that case or stop trying to use it as leverage to support your point of view. But we both know you're just using it as an appeal to emotion, knowing it's neither here nor there when it comes to the gun debate.

A knife is WAY less dangerous than a shotgun, isn't it?

[Xant]

A knife is WAY less dangerous than a shotgun, isn't it?

No? And what does it have to do with anything? It's ok to kill 8 year old girls as long as you don't do it with a tool that is more dangerous than X?

[Jeade]

Can a kitchen knife do anything other than kill or threaten to kill?

Yes. Knives can be utilized in many ways. 

Can a bow and a few arrows do anything other than kill or threaten to kill?

Yes. They can be used recreationally: target shooting and hunting.

Can a gun and a few rounds do anything other than kill or threaten to kill?

Yes. They can be used recreationally: target shooting and hunting.

[Grytviken]

Most laws *are* based around the dumbest of fucks though, that's why the 2nd Amendment stands out to a lot of Europeans and a decent chunk of Americans as being outdated.

There's a wonderful place called Europe they can move to if they don't like the constitution. 

[Bronto]

Yes. Knives can be utilized in many ways. 

Can a bow and a few arrows do anything other than kill or threaten to kill?

Yes. They can be used recreationally: target shooting and hunting.

Can a gun and a few rounds do anything other than kill or threaten to kill?

Yes. They can be used recreationally: target shooting and hunting.

The point I was making is that a shotgun is more dangerous than a knife. It's a pretty easy concept to grasp. I don't know why you all are making it harder than it has to be. It's much easier to run away from/survive a knife attack than it is if someone is shooting you point blank with a shotgun. If I turn my back to run away, chances are, that shotgun is still going to kill me. If I turn my back and run on a knife wielder, unless they are proficient at throwing them and get extremely lucky and actually hit somewhere that can kill me, I'll survive, with minimal injury.

A bullet shot from a gun travels at a much higher velocity than a knife thrown.

Also, you have this thing called reaction time, it's inherent, you've all flinched before. If you flinch when someone shoots you, or raise your hands, that bullet still gonna rip through your body. If you flinch and or raise your hands in a knife attack, knife still gonna cut you, but probably not as severely as a bullet being shot at you.

What are we even still arguing this point for? Are we all retarded that we think we can actually change people's minds on the internet???? Fuck, pro-gun people are always gon' be like YEAH GUNS! GIVE EVERYONE GUNS GUNS SHOOT SHOOT BULLETS GUNS AND YEEHAW FREEDOM...anti-gun people or people for gun law reform, are going to be like you like kids getting shot and having to worry about sending your children to school or public places because of mass shootings??? GUN PEOPLE: Give them guns, then they can shoot the shooters...anti-gun, morons guns are the problem....Pro-gun people, but the people are crazy too, it's a mental thing....and it goes on and on like this...

[Turkhammer]

Nope, I gave 2 clear scenarios:

1. You have a loaded gun under your pillow, if someone randomly decides to enter your house at night and murder you for no reason as in your post you wake up and can shoot at any perpetrators 'BLAM BLAM BLAM i'm so cool!' The downside is... YOU HAVE A FUCKING LOADED GUN UNDER YOUR PILLOW, which is retarded. All those news stories of kids shooting themselves/their friends/their parents are a result of that level of irresponsibility. But hey, if someone wants to assassinate you for no reason, you're ready! Which is more likely?
2. You are a responsible gun owner, you have a gun 'for protection' but it's locked away in a place where you'd never have time to get it/load it if someone randomly decided to murder you in the night. In which case you wasted your money mate cos that gun's no fucking use. The upside is no accidental shootings, you only die if someone decides to assassinate you for no reason (hey, sometimes shit happens, but which is more likely?)

You seem to be obsessed with a scenario that's *never* going to happen, and in preparing for it you pose a far greater risk to your friends and family in the form of a scenario that's *probably* never going to happen. Statistically speaking it's unlikely that you'll have a domestic gun accident if you're reasonably responsible, but it's still far far far more likely that a wayward murderer deciding to break into your house and assassinate you for no reason.

"Blam, Blam I'm cool?"  Are you ridiculing defending your life?  Are you seriously saying that?  I already elucidated for you how the weapon is handled.  How did you assume it is under the pillow?  That would be uncomfortable I imagine.  You are constructing straw men with your first scenario.  You are assuming that the risk of accidental discharge is high with your first scenario.  It is not.  If you were familiar with firearms you would understand why not.  You and I are talking about a risk/benefit analysis.  We've reached differing conclusions.  I want the freedom to make that conclusion.  I do not want you or the government deciding that they know what's best for me and deciding for me.

[Xant]

The point I was making is that a shotgun is more dangerous than a knife. It's a pretty easy concept to grasp. I don't know why you all are making it harder than it has to be. It's much easier to run away from/survive a knife attack than it is if someone is shooting you point blank with a shotgun. If I turn my back to run away, chances are, that shotgun is still going to kill me. If I turn my back and run on a knife wielder, unless they are proficient at throwing them and get extremely lucky and actually hit somewhere that can kill me, I'll survive, with minimal injury.

A bullet shot from a gun travels at a much higher velocity than a knife thrown.

Also, you have this thing called reaction time, it's inherent, you've all flinched before. If you flinch when someone shoots you, or raise your hands, that bullet still gonna rip through your body. If you flinch and or raise your hands in a knife attack, knife still gonna cut you, but probably not as severely as a bullet being shot at you.

So now your argument against guns is that it's not as easy to run away from them?

Knives are, in fact, more dangerous point blank than guns. Ban knives.