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Author Topic: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)  (Read 35219 times)

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Offline Falka

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #270 on: October 06, 2015, 05:52:36 pm »
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Offline cup457

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #271 on: October 06, 2015, 05:57:55 pm »
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i keep a bayonet in the scabbard next to my bed. tbh its probably a lot more useful than the rest of my guns becauae i dont own a pistol. also im pretty sure hawaii has low crime because the island is mostly military. about new yorks crime, if you cut out new york city it gets rid off most of the crime. most pf upstate new york is just as peaceful as the other NE states
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Offline Overdriven

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #272 on: October 06, 2015, 06:00:10 pm »
+3
Come on there must be some statistics somewhere on how many criminals, intruders ect are actually shot by 'law abiding' citizens (cba to google myself). As I said previously I suspect it may be a very low number. You'd have to have a very small sense of self preservation to turn a gun on an intruder (who also has a gun) with a 50-50 chance of coming out on top and expect to win. I suspect most gun owning law abiding citizens probably shit their pants and hide/let them take whatever/call the police rather than use a weapon.

As I said before if you cut off the legal supply you'll also eventually limit the illegal supply due to confiscations and lack of gun thefts to keep the supply chain going.

But hell no propaganda on how everyone needs a gun to protect themselves from those wild free roaming gun toating criminals is clearly the more sensible course.

(click to show/hide)

Funnily enough the President is a high profile target. The average family, no one gives a shit about.

Offline Overdriven

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #273 on: October 06, 2015, 06:16:29 pm »
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No they've just seen too much Desperate Housewives. Those lovely suburban areas aren't as perfect as they seem ya know.

Offline Turkhammer

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #274 on: October 06, 2015, 06:24:10 pm »
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Gun violence causes tighter gun laws, not the other way around.

That's what I'm arguing about. By the same logic, speed limits have no influence on bad drivers. It turns out they do because law enforcement is a thing that exists.

You can easily detect speeding drivers, unlike people carrying concealed weapons.  Therefore you are using a false analogy.

Offline Jeade

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #275 on: October 06, 2015, 06:27:08 pm »
+1
If your shotgun is kept locked in a safe with a trigger lock on and the ammunition stored separately, in what sense is your shotgun 'protecting' you from rogue murderers/assassins/whatever-the-fuck-americans-think-they-need-guns-to-protect-themselves-against?

'Dang! A thief in the night! Stay right there a moment, I need to unlock my safe and retrieve my ammunition from a secure location, but when I do you're in so much trouble!'

If you are a responsible gun owner, you're not 'defended' from all those criminals you apparently need protection from cos the gun's locked away.
If you aren't a responsible gun owner then I hope neither you, your kid or any guests you have round (invited or criminal) ever makes any mistakes, loses their temper, panics or otherwise does anything else stupid not already covered.

That argument is far more relevant when it comes to carrying a firearm in your vehicle, as some states are going to require it stays in the trunk and locked up.
Where I grew up, if an alarm went off (and we did numerous times, though most of the time it was our cat diving face first into the sliding glass door), there was ample time to grab a gun and move everyone to one room.
The last time the alarm went off and I was at home by myself, I grabbed the trigger lock key from the room adjacent, keyed in the safe code, took off the trigger lock, and threw a couple rounds in a magazine.
I was able to manage that much in less than 60 seconds.

What you need to remember is that, when most people break in, they're not looking to hurt you.
They don't want to cause a big scene, but, if they're armed and feel threatened (perhaps they thought the house was empty but heard someone walking around), they may just decide to kill you.
Just this past year, a friend of mine was shot in the head downtown after a couple guys decided they wanted to jack his car.
His sister was in the back and they got in with her. My friend told them to get the fuck out, so the guy shot him point blank in the head and killed him.
Point being, people are unpredictable, and I'd rather have a chance at stopping the threat than no chance at stopping the threat.

I've had to call the police before when someone was in my place at 3AM, and it scared the shit out me.
It was only a week after a break in and shooting had happened just down the street.
Thank Christ it was just some drunk dude, but those five minutes on the phone were the longest five minutes of my life to date.
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Offline Turkhammer

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #276 on: October 06, 2015, 06:29:55 pm »
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IKR! Those cowards who think that just because of all the mass shootings in the US, they foolishly imagine the same thing could happen to them! Pfff, what nervous nellys




As opposed to concealed carry which presents the same circumstances without alarming the public.  You can maintain your rights (the primary one being the right to defend yourself) without antagonizing the general public.

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #277 on: October 06, 2015, 06:37:34 pm »
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That argument is far more relevant when it comes to carrying a firearm in your vehicle, as some states are going to require it stays in the trunk and locked up.

Just this past year, a friend of mine was shot in the head downtown after a couple guys decided they wanted to jack his car.
His sister was in the back and they got in with her. My friend told them to get the fuck out, so the guy shot him point blank in the head and killed him.
Point being, people are unpredictable, and I'd rather have a chance at stopping the threat than no chance at stopping the threat.
How would a gun in the trunk have made any difference in his case? Or even a gun on himself?

Now think how it could've gone, if the criminals were somewhat less likely to have a gun themselves.

Offline Falka

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #278 on: October 06, 2015, 06:39:19 pm »
+1
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Offline Jeade

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #279 on: October 06, 2015, 06:41:01 pm »
0
Come on there must be some statistics somewhere on how many criminals, intruders ect are actually shot by 'law abiding' citizens (cba to google myself). As I said previously I suspect it may be a very low number. You'd have to have a very small sense of self preservation to turn a gun on an intruder (who also has a gun) with a 50-50 chance of coming out on top and expect to win. I suspect most gun owning law abiding citizens probably shit their pants and hide/let them take whatever/call the police rather than use a weapon.

Apologies for a double post, but I'm sure someone will post before me.

You'd be correct in the case of active shooters, that something like 7% or so are stopped by citizen intervention (I can't remember what the FBI doc I linked said, but it was somewhere around there).
In the case of home invasions, I'm not sure what the stats are, but you're also right that most gun-owning, law-abiding citizens will shit their pants, hide, let them take whatever, and call the police.
In fact, that's exactly what you're supposed to do in this case.

You need to secure your family first and foremost.
Don't go after the suspect, but let the suspect come to you.
Since you know the layout of your home, you have the advantage.
Once you're in a safe place and your family is with you, you should do everything possible to avoid having to use a firearm.
Let the police handle it if at all possible, and defend yourself if you must.

I feel there's a misunderstanding here that gun owners are actively looking for the opportunity to kill other people whenever they have the chance, but most gun owners I know are all very responsible.
Shit, if you go to a range and do so much as put your toe over the safety line, you're asking to get chewed out.

No one wants to use that pistol or rifle against anyone, pro-gun or anti-gun.
The difference is that some of us want to have that choice if we need it.

How would a gun in the trunk have made any difference in his case? Or even a gun on himself?

Now think how it could've gone, if the criminals were somewhat less likely to have a gun themselves.

A gun in the trunk would have made no difference, but in the state of Missouri, you can legally carry concealed quite easily.
If he were out here in California, he'd have been dead regardless.
Had he a CCL, he may have had a chance.
For instance (this is in Brazil, but the point stands).

If criminals were somewhat less likely to own guns, that'd be great, but we won't catch those criminals with their unregistered guns until they do something to get caught.
What you must understand is that there are millions upon millions of guns here, and simply banning those guns isn't going to put a dent in criminal activity, as the only people who would still have guns are dangerous people.
Just as you have a very anti-gun culture, the US has a very strong gun culture.
It may be difficult for you to reconcile the differences, but I can understand why you all think the solution is so simple; the US is the exact opposite of the UK.
Ideally, I'd prefer a country with no guns whatsoever, but that is simply not reality in the US.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2015, 06:54:51 pm by Jeade »
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #280 on: October 06, 2015, 06:42:00 pm »
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Heskey has apparently never had to deal with crime in his life, and doesn't know anyone that does either. Fucking retarded cunt arguing that the fear of dying in mass shootings is legitimate, but ooooh if you worry about being "culturally enriched" you're obviously just a racist scumbag. Wonder which one has more chance of happening?
Jeade you're clearly just a priviledged white cunt, lolol as if there was ever ANY DANGER WHATSOEVER of getting shot in the head by some "youffs". Do you think you're living in a Western? Listen to Heskey, his absolute belief that taking any steps to defend yourself from these things that NEVER HAPPEN is badwrong trumps your friend mouldering in his grave. Or friends probably, I'm going to guess this isn't the first person you know this has happened to.
P.S: move out of your town as soon as you can. Things aren't going to get better.
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Offline Bronto

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #281 on: October 06, 2015, 06:44:51 pm »
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Well, yes, that would be a people problem over a gun problem.
If the shotgun were kept locked in a safe with a trigger lock on and the ammunition stored separately, this wouldn't have happened.
What would you say if the kid walked into the kitchen, grabbed a knife, and stabbed the girl to death?
Would we have a knife problem?

If he would've only had access to a knife it would have been a lot harder to stab that girl out the window as apposed to shooting her as he did. Especially if she took a step or two backwards.....What about if he charge out of the front door of his house you say!??!?!?!?!!!

As with most people my normal reaction to someone pulling out a knife is to stand completely still with my arms at my sides and let them get the first stab in. After I've done this they either really see how tough I am or realize they're going to have stab me repeatedly while I do not try to defend myself or run away from the initial encounter. At that point if I do run, I just hope they don't have high Power Throw and haven't put all their WPF into throwing...........

Offline Turkhammer

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #282 on: October 06, 2015, 06:46:35 pm »
0
If your shotgun is kept locked in a safe with a trigger lock on and the ammunition stored separately, in what sense is your shotgun 'protecting' you from rogue murderers/assassins/whatever-the-fuck-americans-think-they-need-guns-to-protect-themselves-against?

'Dang! A thief in the night! Stay right there a moment, I need to unlock my safe and retrieve my ammunition from a secure location, but when I do you're in so much trouble!'

If you are a responsible gun owner, you're not 'defended' from all those criminals you apparently need protection from cos the gun's locked away.
If you aren't a responsible gun owner then I hope neither you, your kid or any guests you have round (invited or criminal) ever makes any mistakes, loses their temper, panics or otherwise does anything else stupid not already covered.

The important concept to keep in mind is to be in control of the weapon at all times.  If you leave a loaded pistol in the night stand drawer while you are not in the room you are not in control of it.  If you have guests, or children about you must control the weapon by carrying it or by securing it.  You don't have to have the weapon locked away at all times to be responsible for it.

Heskey you seem to conflate the concepts of bad things rarely happen with bad things never happen.  I live in a small middle class town where no serious crime happens in decades.  3 years ago four teenage boys entered a home at 3 AM with knives and machetes to engage in a thrill killing.  They slaughtered a mother in her bed and left an eleven year old girl for dead with her left foot almost severed.  They chose the house at random.  I feel quite comfortable keeping a loaded pistol under my bed at night.  When kids or guests are in the house the pistol is on my person or unloaded and locked.

Offline Clockworkkiller

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #283 on: October 06, 2015, 06:49:46 pm »
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If your shotgun is kept locked in a safe with a trigger lock on and the ammunition stored separately, in what sense is your shotgun 'protecting' you from rogue murderers/assassins/whatever-the-fuck-americans-think-they-need-guns-to-protect-themselves-against?

'Dang! A thief in the night! Stay right there a moment, I need to unlock my safe and retrieve my ammunition from a secure location, but when I do you're in so much trouble!'

If you are a responsible gun owner, you're not 'defended' from all those criminals you apparently need protection from cos the gun's locked away.
If you aren't a responsible gun owner then I hope neither you, your kid or any guests you have round (invited or criminal) ever makes any mistakes, loses their temper, panics or otherwise does anything else stupid not already covered.

Don't need any of that stuff, just teach your kids discipline and gun safety. Keep the gun in a nightstand drawer until needed, tell kids if they ever find it they will be in massive trouble if they touch it.
Or get a fucking biometric safe, one press of the finger and your good to go. Keep the rest of your guns in a actual safe, locked away.
You are a horrible human being clockwork.

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Offline Oberyn

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Re: Another school shooting in Murrica (Oregon edition)
« Reply #284 on: October 06, 2015, 06:54:51 pm »
+1
Or you could just come live in a "Sensitive Urban Zone" in Marseilles, i.e some of the worst no-go zones where firefighters and police and ambulances and any sort of government representative gets assaulted and attacked, you know the zones that apparently don't exist and are a fabrication of right-wing media. It's just soooo hard for those fuckers to get AK-47's and firearms, that's why the violent crime level in the city has been going down steadily over the years, and not the exact opposite. Maybe if we're really lucky it'll turn into Sao Paulo levels of violence eventually. Strange how no one ever brings up Brazil and it's much more restrictive gun laws compared to the US, with criminals that are much, much poorer than anything in the US or the EU. And yet they still manage to practically be militias in terms of firepower.
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