Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!

[ecorcheur_brokar]

Autharcism has always been shown to have bad effect across history, it tends to slow the progress of a society, like Japan before it was forced to open its border. And as for tribalism, sub-saharian Africa is an amazing demonstration of its great benefits!

While on the opposite, empire open to diversity have often been some of the greatest like the Mughal or the Omeyyades.

I don't have any exemple of society collapsing because of its open-mindness while so many great and wealthy nations fell because of division and tribalism.

The thing I fear and dislike with this immigrants is their tribalism. It's the only reason why I think we should accept them only in reasonable number (way less than what we have already accepted), so we can integrate them proprely and make them lose their tribal reflex.

The parallel people usually draw is the US, and the way it can integrate immigrants much better than Europe. Do you think this is due to the lack of patriotism and nationalism in americans? Or the exact opposite?

US have not even intergated/assimilated blacks that have been freed more than 100 years ago....To be more fair, I would say that US tends to integrate people quickly (usually done during a lifetime), while EU tends to assimilate them but it takes more time (1-2 generation).

And for once, I will agree with grytviken financial independence leads to better integration.

[ecorcheur_brokar]

are the authorities telling them to stay there? seems odd.

Kebab removal program incomming shortly  :twisted:

[Grytviken]

Autharcism has always been shown to have bad effect across history, it tends to slow the progress of a society, like Japan before it was forced to open its border. And as for tribalism, sub-saharian Africa is an amazing demonstration of its great benefits!

While on the opposite, empire open to diversity have often been some of the greatest like the Mughal or the Omeyyades.

I don't have any exemple of society collapsing because of its open-mindness while so many great and wealthy nations fell because of division and tribalism.

The thing I fear and dislike with this immigrants is their tribalism. It's the only reason why I think we should accept them only in reasonable number (way less than what we have already accepted), so we can integrate them proprely and make them lose their tribal reflex.
US have not even intergated/assimilated blacks that have been freed more than 100 years ago....To be more fair, I would say that US tends to integrate people quickly (usually done during a lifetime), while EU tends to assimilate them but it takes more time (1-2 generation).

And for once, I will agree with grytviken financial independence leads to better integration.

Affirmative action was put in place to try and fix some of these problems. Racial quotas are issued to promote diversity, Example: if a University hasn't accepted a certain percentage of minorities, the admission requirements can be lowered to take more in. Everyone has the same opportunities, and no-one is forced to integrate. You can find a job and live comfortably without ever fluently speaking English.

[Gravoth_iii]

Interesting to see the situation in all countries. Good arguments on both sides, im remaining sort of neutral still, but voting for whatever party that argues the best, like not using cheap name callings.

[Kafein]

Affirmative action was put in place to try and fix some of these problems. Racial quotas are issued to promote diversity, Example: if a University hasn't accepted a certain percentage of minorities, the admission requirements can be lowered to take more in. Everyone has the same opportunities, and no-one is forced to integrate. You can find a job and live comfortably without ever fluently speaking English.

Affirmative action is actually ruining integration though. Everyone has the same opportunities, except the minorities privileged by such racist legislation.

[Grytviken]

Affirmative action is actually ruining integration though. Everyone has the same opportunities, except the minorities privileged by such racist legislation.

I'd say so, but integration can't be forced they have to accept it. Also no-one can force families to encourage the prioritization of education. Back in time in the United States if you were caught speaking a European language in school or had a funny accent you would get slapped with a ruler, so it's not like the Europeans had it easy here either. The opposite is taking place now, Spanish is being taught in schools and there are special bi-lingual classrooms.

[Leshma]

seems odd.

Find it hard to believe this seems odd to you. Isn't there plenty of homes in USA that are built on top of Indian graveyards?

[cup457]

[Christo]

(click to show/hide)

[Tibe]

Find it hard to believe this seems odd to you. Isn't there plenty of homes in USA that are built on top of Indian graveyards?

What is this with you and this constant silly bashing of USA? How the fuck do you think anyone is gonna take you seriuslly when you say stupid shit like this? "Oh wow, I feel amazing, its supergood having a moral highground simply because i am not from the US." Its not like im a fan of them either. But good god man... Its like you have no solid arguments so all you say is u is fat, indian burialgrounds, Iraq, Bush herpderp I feel like I effectively shut this person from USA up.

[Prpavi]

So you're saying you think it is still the only reasonable, rational and moral option even though it is also most likely doomed to failure.

OT: so far over 77.000 documented refugees entered Croatia (and thus EU), just over the weekend 12.000 came and there is no end in sight. Our goverment established camps for them to be accomodated in and shipped via bus/trains to Slovenian and Hungarian borders, how many have left the country is unknown, or atleast they are not releasing official numbers, my guess is they don't know themselves.

Well I don't have a definite solution to the problem, but total isolation a seclusion sure is't one either. I'm not competent enough to find a solution to their integration but forced education might be a good start and let's face it they are here to stay, no way you will be able to send back thousands of people (check OT). People have always migrated for whatever reasons (war, famine, natural disasters) and there's no stopping that, sure there are a percentage of those that will cause trouble and will never integrate properly, but I refuse to believe every male from Syria will come to western europe and start raping local women.

[Prpavi]

are the authorities telling them to stay there? seems odd.

Very simple. If I'm not mistaken this is from Croatia and that is an orthodox christian cemetery tadaaaa. Croatia is a catholic country and Serbia is an orthodox country, so nobody gives a fuck. (history lesson: imagine 2 neighboring countries, basically same tribe even speak the same language but over the centuries conquered by different empires and separated by religion, add a pinch of hundreds of years of wars between them and all sorts of political disputes and it all makes sense now)

[Vovka]

how many are already arrived refugees in Europe? I have heard of about 200,000 and it is not enough to panic, given that Russia has taken nearly a million refugees from Ukraine.

Very simple. If I'm not mistaken this is from Croatia and that is an orthodox christian cemetery tadaaaa. Croatia is a catholic country and Serbia is an orthodox country, so nobody gives a fuck. (history lesson: imagine 2 neighboring countries, basically same tribe even speak the same language but over the centuries conquered by different empires and separated by religion, add a pinch of hundreds of years of wars between them and all sorts of political disputes and it all makes sense now)

do not insult the feelings of believers Orthodox. Otherwise, Mr. Putin would bring troops 

[Oberyn]

Hilarious. I'm sure if it were 1 million chechen refugees it would be the exact same situation and not at all handled differently.

"In the nearby republic of Ingushetia, at the peak of the refugee crisis after the start of the Second Chechen War in 2000, estimated 240,000 refugees almost doubled the Ingushetia's pre-war population of 300,000 (350,000 including the refugees from the Ingush-Ossetian conflict) and resulting in an epidemy of tuberculosis.[2] Estimated 325,000 was the total number of people that have entered Ingushetia as refugees in the first year of the Second Chechen War.[3] Some 185,000 were in the republic already by November 1999[4] and 215,000 lived in Ingushetia by June 2000.[3] In October 1999 the border with Ingushetia was closed down by the Russian military and a refugee convoy bombed after being turned away.

Thousands of them were pressured to return by the Russian military already in December 1999,[5] and the refugee camps were forcibly closed after 2001 by the new Chechen government of President Akhmad Kadyrov and the new Ingush government of President Murat Zyazikov.[6] About 180,000 Chechens remained in Ingushetia by February 2002[7] and 150,000 by June 2002, most of them housed in a "tent city" camps, abandoned farms and factories and disused trains, or living with sympathetic families.[8] As of early 2007, less than 20,000 Chechens remained in Ingushetia and many of them were expected to integrate locally rather than return to Chechnya."

Glorious rusky tolerance, much kinder than those degenerate western zionist weakling bundle of stickss who are also paradoxically dangerous hateful racist neo-chocolate chip cookie. The "1 million" refugees being largely russian speaking people who identify wholeheartedly as russian is completely irrelevant, clearly.

[Grytviken]

Hilarious. I'm sure if it were 1 million chechen refugees it would be the exact same situation and not at all handled differently.

"In the nearby republic of Ingushetia, at the peak of the refugee crisis after the start of the Second Chechen War in 2000, estimated 240,000 refugees almost doubled the Ingushetia's pre-war population of 300,000 (350,000 including the refugees from the Ingush-Ossetian conflict) and resulting in an epidemy of tuberculosis.[2] Estimated 325,000 was the total number of people that have entered Ingushetia as refugees in the first year of the Second Chechen War.[3] Some 185,000 were in the republic already by November 1999[4] and 215,000 lived in Ingushetia by June 2000.[3] In October 1999 the border with Ingushetia was closed down by the Russian military and a refugee convoy bombed after being turned away.

Thousands of them were pressured to return by the Russian military already in December 1999,[5] and the refugee camps were forcibly closed after 2001 by the new Chechen government of President Akhmad Kadyrov and the new Ingush government of President Murat Zyazikov.[6] About 180,000 Chechens remained in Ingushetia by February 2002[7] and 150,000 by June 2002, most of them housed in a "tent city" camps, abandoned farms and factories and disused trains, or living with sympathetic families.[8] As of early 2007, less than 20,000 Chechens remained in Ingushetia and many of them were expected to integrate locally rather than return to Chechnya."

Glorious rusky tolerance, much kinder than those degenerate western zionist weakling bundle of stickss who are also paradoxically dangerous hateful racist neo-chocolate chip cookie. The "1 million" refugees being largely russian speaking people who identify wholeheartedly as russian is completely irrelevant, clearly.

Don't tell him too much info Oberyn, we can't afford to lose anymore crpg players to the KGB. They'll prolly be tearing his teeth out with a pair off pliers asking him what he knows about NATO