Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!

[Armpit_Sweat]

Oh, Germans. I wonder when they'll get over their little WW2 misadventures.

I hope they are not just holding that in, secretly raging inside, and hiding Schicklgruber's photo under pillow. Cause if ze Germans snap again - all of us non Aryans are doomed.

[Molly]

In all fairness, he said "properly" and I do agree on that.
We're rich, we can afford to treat the properly.
Does not mean we can or should simply take everyone.

[Angantyr]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/german-asylum-system-stretches-to-breaking-point-a-1052546.html

'As the migrant influx continues, the 'Refugees Welcome' high is beginning to wear off. People are beginning to wonder if Germany will really be able to cope with all the newcomers. And the system is already completely overwhelmed.'

[Prpavi]

When you want something of Germany or you want to make them look bad, you point out of their past, really cheap tactic, and whats even worse is that there are Germans that promote this aswell.


I don`t agree with many things that the German government does, especially when it comes to my country, but hitting them on their weakest point is really lame.


"OH THE chocolate chip cookieZ STARTED A WAR , 85 YEARS LATER, THE GERMAN WOMEN SHOULD LET THEMSELVES TO BE FUCKED FROM ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS FOR REPARATIONS"


Ironically, the ones that the Germans should help as a  repayment  for the war, is Poland, Russia, France, Greece and Israel.

Other than that is plain bullshit.

No it should be remembered for centuries to come so no other degenerate tribe with an elevated false sense of self worth and racial supremacy tries to pull that stunt again. Unfortunatley it's still happening today, not to that extent in the civilised world atleast. And btw. you are the first one to pull the history card when it comes to Greece, way older than 85 years, one might call that a cheap tactic too.

[Oberyn]

To what extent is it happening in the "civilized" world at all? Maybe it's time to stop holding onto the fucking chocolate chip cookies as a talisman of shame and a burden that must be upheld by the whole of "western" civilization (i.e any majority "white" country which is automatically subject to "chocolate chip cookie" comparisons despite how retarded that comparison may be historically), despite the fact that a huge chunk of the "west" was itself brutally conquered, subjected by, or fought the chocolate chip cookies.
If I don't think betting on an incredibly idealistic utopian vision of the future (yeah, we've had SO MUCH LUCK with those historically) with the entire future of europe as collateral is a fantastic idea, well obviously I'm just a complete fucking fascist and dream of gassing brown people in ovens. It's either attempts at shaming or appeals to emotion, with the occasional appeal to self-interest with the same usual suspect talking points trotted out about how sooooo economically and socially beneficial immigraton is, when so much evidence shows otherwise.

[Prpavi]

Maybe I expressed myself wrong but what I was refering to is not crimes themselves but racism and neo-chocolate chip cookie movements still existing in Germany today 80+ years later, it's a terrifiying legacy that will haunt Germany for centuries unfortunately, by judging these crimes I believe they are less likely to happen again in that country on a larger scale, today it's a fist full of radicals, 80 years ago it was nation wide. I'm glad most Germans recognize those crimes and judge what happened.

As for utopian future, there is none, there are so many different cultures and conditions people grow up and live in, it will be impossible to get everybody on the same page ever. I agree with you we are mostly tribal animals still and the power of the herd is not to be underestimated by any means, the difference is the founding thing that binds those people together, religion, nationality, ancestry is a total bullcrap of a reason, let's just call all the unions/coalitions etc. for what they are, purely monetary unions that benefit everybody, some more some less, but in today's world the only union is the one where you benefit from it all other ideals are just a disguise. Let's bet you put the biggest white racist KKK biggot and the biggest black white panther loving dude together, give them a chance to make big money together, make a decent living for their children and families, nice stress free lives, all their previous differences would be forgotten, they would just find another reason to hate somebody else for being asian/jewish/ginger/muslim/gay though, guess that's just the way it is.

Sure people of different cultures can live together, put religion and other nonsense aside and add a pinch of education miracles can happen, again not on a large scale. Not sure we will ever get there, we have a better chance of nuclear holocaust and scorching the Earth before seeing that happen.

[Oberyn]

Can you show me a country where the majority does not discriminate in some way towards those they perceive as "outsiders", even if it's something as meaningless as a simple geographical limit? Do you honestly think you can eradicate "racism", when that term has come to mean so many forms of discrimination, forms of discrimination which are routine and regular and literally part of every civilization that has ever existed and most that continue to exist to this day? For such a universal creed, it sure seems limited to a very selective portion of the planet. I don't see any other civilizations rushing to give up their religion, ancestry, nationality, and various other forms of tribal identities, despite the apparently self-evident and generally accepted point of view that they are "total bullcrap". I mean seriously, open your fucking eyes. No one else is dreaming. That doesn't bode well for this idealistic universal goal that may never be achieved but oh well we might as well try.

[Prpavi]

I don't know if you failed to understand or just ignored it but I agreed with you it will never happen, that still doesn't make the bullcrap reasons any less bullcrap. There is always a sense of survival and self-preservation a collective gives us and that will always be the case, I was just implying reasons like: "my god is better than yours" or "my people bulid the pyramids thousands of years ago (the fact I have nothing to do with them today is ignored ofc.)" have nothing to do with it.

[Oberyn]

So you're saying you think it is still the only reasonable, rational and moral option even though it is also most likely doomed to failure.

[Oberyn]

The parallel people usually draw is the US, and the way it can integrate immigrants much better than Europe. Do you think this is due to the lack of patriotism and nationalism in americans? Or the exact opposite?

[Oberyn]

Sorry for the triple post.

I think you're way too flippant about the admiteddly bullcrap reasons. It seems that humans are programmed to be willing to kill and die for such causes, or otherwise sacrifice much, and it usually comes back to that same sense of protectiveness, of defending the in group from the vagaries of the rest of the world. Sure, it's dumb from an individual, rationalistic and objective point of view, but none of those words have ever described a collective. Collectives may be dumb, but there have always been lot of capable and smart individuals within willing to lend their talents to further their existence. Because as dumb as these reasons are, they are rock solid, from an evolutionary point of view. They have certainly stood the test of time. I find it arrogant to think they will be so easily displaced.
Good luck "shaming" Saudi Arabia into reforming it's society and mores and "life philosophy" and political goals and it's view on shia and it's view on other arabs outside the gulf countries and it's views on different strains of Islam and etc..I'm not bringing up Saudi Arabia simply because it's an egregrious example of islamic theocracy and there are much more moderate muslim countries where this sort of invective would be unfair, it's because Saudi Arabia is the lynchpin and source of this virulent strain of Islam that has been spreading for decades throughout the rest of the islamic world. The sooner we can stop relying on the only thing they and the rest of OPEC have to offer (a stable world market for oil and gas which they can throw in chaos in a moment if it happens to suit their needs), the sooner we can start realizing that even that is not worth the consequences our support has meant for not only the whole muslim world but the whole planet.

[Molly]

To be fair, Germany is on of the countries in Europe with the lowest racist radicals count today.
There are several countries with way higher numbers in that corner.

Merely mentioning.

[Grytviken]

The parallel people usually draw is the US, and the way it can integrate immigrants much better than Europe. Do you think this is due to the lack of patriotism and nationalism in americans? Or the exact opposite?

  Exact opposite. The government and philosophies greatly differ here. State government here is more reflective of European national governments, and laws and taxes vary by policies, left and right.  The main difference can be seen in the archaic public transportation system here which is only reliably available in major cities, only 20% of the populace in the US does not own a vehicle.  I guess you could say freedom of movement is an invaluable form of independence here and something you have to work for and integrate with society to achieve.

Europeans have far greater social benefits that come with higher tax rates, although benefits do exist here, they are for basic necessities such as food allowance and rent assistance. Here the majority of benefits are reserved for the elderly, retired or disabled. Unemployment benefits are given to workers who are unemployed at no fault of their own, in most states this money comes from a tax on employers that is put in an insurance trust fund. So I guess you could say financial independence leads to greater integration, because to achieve this you have to socially integrate.

[Grytviken]

are the authorities telling them to stay there? seems odd.

[Kafein]

The parallel people usually draw is the US, and the way it can integrate immigrants much better than Europe. Do you think this is due to the lack of patriotism and nationalism in americans? Or the exact opposite?

Fiscal laws and social benefits have much more to do with this than nationalism.


Also Oberyn I don't know who you are angry at except imaginary hippies. 1968 was 47 years ago. Nobody thinks Saudi Arabia will go down with flowers.