Refugees "flooding" Europe !NEW POLL!

[Oberyn]

What you're ignoring is that all the various "clashes" and "migrations" were always accompanied by massive political upheavals, wars, entire civilizations dying and being overrun by invaders. This shit that's happening now is purely artificial, the brainchild of politicians who believe they can control the very flow of history using fucking social engineering, using the people they represent by covenant and contract as nothing more than numbers in their ambitions. It's arrogant in it's presumptions and stupidly naive in it's goals. You're saying the only interest you have in your own people is their potential as fuel for this pie in the sky moronic dream, and you have no particular attachment or even recognize the notion that there's such a thing as "your people" in the first place. That's fine, at least you're honest. If only politicians pushing for policies that are clearly aimed at promoting this goal were this honest.

And i made it perfectly clear that intra-EU migration is fine, that I completely approve of it, that the WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF THE EUROPEAN UNION was about uniting various european countries by identifying the clear cultural links stretching back centuries, from languages to religions to mores, that unified Europe as a cohesive civilization. The EU wasn't about some stupidly naive zero borders hypothetical fantasy of a center for the entirety of the world's cultures and peoples, it was about EUROPEAN culture and peoples. It's in the fucking name! Like I said, rename it Eurasiaafrican Cooperative or something, because clearly the EU isn't well named to represent the future you envision.

[Kalam]

Okay.

 Though I am curious as to what the future I envision is.

[Oberyn]

It serves our purposes to convince others to embrace these ideals, since we no longer live in a world that allows for direct colonialism and other obvious means of exploitation. You want neighbors you can reason with, after all, and it's easier to do that when there's an exchange that positively affects you.

 This isn't motivated by guilt; it's simple self promotion.

The more people speak English, the easier it is for me to sell them tickets to Batman movies. The more Muslims practice their religion like many Christians practice theirs in developed countries, the easier it is to predict, interact with, and profit from Muslims.

 

And yes, I would sell out my people's past in a heartbeat. I don't believe in being held back by something as random as birth any more than I have to. There's a key difference between developed countries that have migrants who cluster into enclaves and countries that have migrants that are assimilated within a generation or two, and I believe the latter is incredibly useful for introducing a larger pool to draw from. Especially highly-skilled migrants.

 In a war of ideas, it's important to acknowledge that people tend to listen more to people they think are like themselves. If you're going to be a global power, why should your citizenry be limited to it's 'natives' when human history is full of peoples smashing against each other, blending, and reconstituting into new groups that give themselves mythologies that state they've always been one people?

Near as I can tell, a miraculous melting pot, whose sole consequences is a "war of ideas" as vastly different cultures tentatively merge with each other in one gloriously fragmented hodgepodge of various influxes, then the real magic happens and a beautiful new butterfly will emerge from this cocoon of universal understanding, encompassing every possible variation of human thought and culture and ethnicity in one glorious new civilization, that I have no doubt will usher in a golden era of kindness and prosperity and gumdrops falling from the sky. Ok some of that might have been from Casimir.

[Kalam]

Near as I can tell, a miraculous melting pot, whose sole consequences is a "war of ideas" as vastly different cultures tentatively merge with each other in one gloriously fragmented hodgepodge of various influxes, then the real magic happens and a beautiful new butterfly will emerge from this cocoon of universal understanding, encompassing every possible variation of human thought and culture and ethnicity in one glorious new civilization, that I have no doubt will usher in a golden era of kindness and prosperity and gumdrops falling from the sky. Ok some of that might have been from Casimir.

That's no different from me calling you a chocolate chip cookie for preferring that people without European ancestry stay out of Europe. I understand if you simply want to rant.

To clarify my position, I do think that cultures benefit from shedding behaviors based on nothing more than tribal signalling. We can't conquer and occupy the world in order to force them to stop persecuting people who don't bother with behaviors based on fiction, but we can accept them into our countries. It's no one's responsibility, but with sufficient controls, I argue that it doesn't have to hurt and even helps, especially if those migrants want to accept the host nation's culture instead of hold on to their own.

I don't think this leads to world peace or anything so huge, but I do believe that a greater exposure to a wider variety of people leads to more people who are less concerned with tribal signalling and more concerned with what actually is, because that's what happens when people of different cultures are forced to live with each other and they don't resort to isolating themselves and/or violence.

And yeah. I really, really like being able to find Lavash, Tlacoyos, Kouign-amann, Pizza, Baozi, and Capati in the same neighborhood. That's a difficult bias to circumnavigate.

Also Alabama scares the shit out of me.

[Casimir]

We're not unifying european cultures and nations by importing hundreds of thousands, millions of people from places outside of europe, from places whose only historical relation to europe has been as enemy or as resentful occupied colony. I don't see how that is hard to understand. I was a fan of the EU, when the pretense was still that this was the idea. Quite clearly that is not the case.

I find my opinions on a subject as sensitive as this aren't as clear cut as some of you guys would like to make them.  These are complex problems and finding solutions to them is not easy, however i do find the many different viewpoints quite interesting (although i disagree with many), with regards to this I'll add my two cent to the discussion as follows.

The point shouldn't be to import new cultures, ethnicity or beliefs, but to reassert what European unity actually means and what it should represent.  That doesn't mean ostracising those of non-European 'culture' 'ethnicity' or 'belief' but about moving towards a future for our European region which creates a place where those who are willing to accept a western ideology, irrelevant of ethnic heritage or religious belief, are able to join into a process of development.  Undoubtedly there are many within the Islamic community who do hold a contempt for the western way of life, but there are also plenty who embrace it readily and want to find a moderation between the two; as Europeans we should surely search for the best in all people, especially those that wish to join our society. 

I believe that if the EU is to continue it should come closer together, asserting a more direct authority over the member states while also enforcing more machiavellian policies which will protect the interests of the existing members.  It is not practical for the EU to become 'the world police', but by taking certain measures Europe could easily justify imposing western values through a predetermined legal structure in international relation.  A politically united and morally guided EU would be for the global benefit of mankind and together Europe presents a far better source of leadership than any other global power in the 21st century.  To some it will seem as neo-colonialism, to me it seems like the only way to ensure the future of civilisation and the world we have created, as damaged as it may be.   

As you rightly said Europe is far from ideal at present, but putting up nationalist boundaries and enforcing right wing ideologies undermines any opportunity for future progress of discussion.  If you are to unify Europe it will require socialist policies and the ideology of left wing politics, to reject such ideas is to reject the very foundation of European unity and will ultimately lead to a collapse of the political structure and the dream of true unity in Europe.

[Oberyn]

Like I said, if your country cant handle it then just admit that you have shit infrastructure, a shit economy and shit morality and that's fine. You can then continue as a beacon of modernity.

Y'know what else is a really beautiful sentiment? 'I love my country/heritage, so get the fuck out'. Or, 'I'm the only sane man in a world gone mad'. Or, 'we're the only ones courageous enough to say what everyone's secretly thinking'. You're spewing far more ideological rubbish than me in this thread.

My 'sentiment' was the direct reverse of your retarded nationalistic sentiment and it was there to make a point, this was clearly lost on you since you seem to guzzle up self-righteous patriotic drivel like some sort of nationalistic cum-dumpster. Anyone can make those sweeping noble claims about their particular political outlook, it's not hard to so.

Tens of thousands of poor, underage native british girls, deliberately targetted because they were native british, raped and treated like kuffr whores. The response? Oh we should keep this quiet for fear of provoking racism against the poor innocent "asians". Two dumb vandal criminal "youths" run away and hide from the police, end up killing themselves through their own idiocy. The response? Massive ethnic riots for weeks, flag burning, cries of hatred and loathing for the country that supposedly treats them in such a horrible racist manner, violent ethnic attacks and vandalism against the faceless, oppressive majority, and of course all it showed is how racist europeans are and we need to do more to integrate these poor aimless "youths".
It's allright, just acceptable collateral damage, mere grit in the great wheel of the universal melting pot. Any native brit feeling any sort of "irrational" hatred or fear in response to this blatant contempt and loathing for their people is obviously just a racist nationalist neo-chocolate chip cookie, because there's no such thing as "their" people anyways. I'm sure all the various minorities that would galvanize themselves in exhortations of anger at the first sign of "racism" towards their people are just as outraged, outraged I tell you, at this fucking abortion of justice. After all they are now also brits, right, and see all other brits as their own people, in this new wonderful multicultural utopia. And even if they didn't, who cares, the native europeans are so rich and powerful and wealthy that any so-called "suffering" they experience is nothing compared to the rightful and deserved rage of "opressed" minorities. Ignore all crime statistics, or hide ethnic origin of it when possible stats are racist anyways. Marseilles being the violent crime capital of Europe and 40% of it's population being maghrebin is completely random. The "white flight" of french native from the city is obviously due to their own racist hangups, they just couldn't handle the wonderful future of cooperative multicultural utopia.

[Molly]

Tens of thousands of poor, underage native british girls, deliberately targetted because they were native british, raped and treated like kuffr whores. [...]

Source, please.

[Oberyn]

Source, please.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aylesbury_sex_gang

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banbury_sex_gang

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough_sex_abuse_case

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_sex_gang

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_sex_gang

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_sex_gang

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_sex_gang

There's articles if you know where to look, but I'm afraid only on evil "racist" "nationalist" websites, since of course mainstream media only very quickly passed over it, didn't feel like dwelling on it for some unfathomable reason, no idea what it could be.

[Molly]

[...]
There's articles if you know where to look, but I'm afraid only on evil "racist" "nationalist" websites, since of course mainstream media only very quickly passed over it, didn't feel like dwelling on it for some unfathomable reason, no idea what it could be.

You ruined it with that part above.
Giving a quick check on the references for those Wiki-articles shows BBC, Guardian, Telegraph and other main stream news outlets and a bunch of official council papers.
Or you actually ment to say that above news outlets are in fact "evil "racist" "nationalist" websites"?

[Xant]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aylesbury_sex_gang

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banbury_sex_gang

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterborough_sex_abuse_case

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telford_sex_gang

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_sex_gang

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxford_sex_gang

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derby_sex_gang

There's articles if you know where to look, but I'm afraid only on evil "racist" "nationalist" websites, since of course mainstream media only very quickly passed over it, didn't feel like dwelling on it for some unfathomable reason, no idea what it could be.

Wow. I love how the Pakis keep getting referred to as "Asians" by the politicians and and LE involved. That's got to be willful misdirection, no one thinks of Pakistan when someone mentions Asians.

[Molly]

Wow. I love how the Pakis keep getting referred to as "Asians" by the politicians and and LE involved. That's got to be willful misdirection, no one thinks of Pakistan when someone mentions Asians.

Yea, I stumbled over that too. Kinda silly.

[Oberyn]

The fact that you had to ask for sources for the thousands of raped native british girls targetted by "asian" gangs that see them as nothing more than kuffr slaves, something that has happened for decades and was uncovered as recently as two years ago, just very, VERY briefly talked about and touched on in the mainstream media, and not for the two retards provoking massive riots through their idiotic involuntary suicide, something that happened even longer ago, that seems perfectly normal to you?

[Xant]

Hargey blames the agencies of the state, including the police, social services and the care system, who ″seemed eager to ignore the sickening exploitation that was happening before their eyes. Terrified of accusations of racism, desperate not to undermine the official creed of cultural diversity, they took no action against obvious abuse."

In the same newspaper, journalist Allison Pearson claimed that "fear of racism" had allowed sex crimes against white girls by Pakistani Muslims to become a serious problem not only in Oxford but throughout the country. She described the Pakistani Muslim community as "essentially a Victorian society that has landed like Doctor Who's Tardis on a liberal, permissive planet it despises".[16]

[Vovka]

Wow. I love how the Pakis keep getting referred to as "Asians" by the politicians and and LE involved. That's got to be willful misdirection, no one thinks of Pakistan when someone mentions Asians.

mb cos pakistan is located in South Asia?

[Xant]

mb cos pakistan is located in South Asia?

No shit, retard. I'm not surprised you're incapable of thinking beyond that obvious fact.