Cav stuff no. 2

[Torben]

first off:
I´d love to see an admin delete all the bitching that will take place in this thread.  Just read bane´s cav stuff and all the crappy replies render the thread very exhausting,  but i loved the idea of the thread. 

I´d like to have an effective list of changes to horses that diversify the battlefield.  I want opinions of different experienced cavplayers.  ONLY opinions.  No discussions.  at least in the beginning.
 Than,  if we have enough ideas we can go on discussing.

these opinions should be notes only,  I dont want essays, pple tend to read 2 words and be biased for the rest which sucks.

utopia ftw

[Torben]

these are standalone suggestions,  not a concept.

Link riding skill to effectiveness,  not bling-factor. (highest tier courser,  arrabian, cataphrac, mamluk,  plated charger (if mamluk and charger will be changed))



armored horses: more speed,  more maneuver penalty at speed than light horses.


elevate riding skill if horses are loomed.  i actually hate the idea rendering my champ mamluk useless but it would be fair.

[Riddaren]

Horses should have their free will. The lower riding skill the harder they should be to manouver.
This could be a terrible idea and maybe impossbile to implement but I find it interesting. Bows already have accuracy randomness so why not the horses?

(click to show/hide)

X % chance that the horse doesn't obey your action. The horse instead makes a random action out of the following (except the action given): NOTHING, FORWARD, REVERSE, LEFT, RIGHT, JUMP, CTRL+J.
A dedicated horsmen would need a riding skill of 5-6+ to not be affected so much by this annoying but realistic randomness. If you are quick with your fingers (skilled irl) you would still manage to deal with it pretty well unless it is a CTRL+J.

Riding 1: -
Riding 2: 8% chance.
Riding 3: 6% chance.
Riding 4: 4% chance.
Riding 5: 1% chance.
Riding 6: 0.5% chance.
Riding 7: 0.1% chance.
Riding 8: -
Riding 9: -
Riding 9: -

[Lizard_man]

a seperate button for dismount would be nice, maybe even mount aswell, i say this because many times i've had to dismount in a hurry and instead i've picked up a weapon or shield and been killed in the process...

[La Makina]

Riddaren +1.

Impact the weight of the rider's equipment on the horse speed and manoeuvre (like for Athletism) to monitor tincans riding jetponies.

Horses will become slower if they are wounded (like in the Diplomacy mod). Armoured horses will then become righteously appreciated. Also, increase horses HP.

My old suggestion: remove/reduce the speed bonus of thrusts:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4901.msg85459.html#msg85459
A big speed bonus (insta-kill) should only apply to couching the lance. We might need to buff the couching then: for instance the minimum speed necessary to couch the lance should be lowered and the recovery time shortened.

[Fluffy_Muffin]

Riddaren +1.

Impact the weight of the rider's equipment on the horse speed and manoeuvre (like for Athletism) to monitor tincans riding jetponies.

Horses will become slower if they are wounded (like in the Diplomacy mod). Armoured horses will then become righteously appreciated. Also, increase horses HP.

My old suggestion: remove/reduce the speed bonus of thrusts:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,4901.msg85459.html#msg85459
A big speed bonus (insta-kill) should only apply to couching the lance. We might need to buff the couching then: for instance the minimum speed necessary to couch the lance should be lowered and the recovery time shortened.

This, i find it funny that a horse doesent even flinch when it gets a morning star to the face. It runs hapily with full speed his face full of holes 

Imo the unarmored horses are far superior to the armored ones because of this. Should be the other way since they are higher tier after all

[Riddaren]

La Makina +1.

"Impact the weight of the rider's equipment on the horse speed and manoeuvre (like for Athletism) to monitor tincans riding jetponies"
Yeah, this would be fair. You just can't ride a horse as good if you are wearing a body suit of steel...

"Horses will become slower if they are wounded (like in the Diplomacy mod). Armoured horses will then become righteously appreciated. Also, increase horses HP."
Would be realistic... but will it be more fun or just annoying to play? I'm sceptic. And if it would be implemented it would only be fair if it affected the players in the same way.

---

Fluffy_Muffin +1

"Imo the unarmored horses are far superior to the armored ones because of this. Should be the other way since they are higher tier after all"
Yeah... that is the case. I find armoured horses kind of useless when wielding a lance. However for 1h bumpslashers they are viable.armour costs.

The riding skill requirement should be linked to horse speed and maneuver, that is most logical, so Courser and Arabian should be 6 and armoured 4 and 5 (unless the armoured ones gets buffed).
But you don't want too many 1h armoured cavalry so a decrease in price would not be a good idea. I rather see a price increase for all horses.

Another thing that is a fact is that ranged cav can be much more effective on lower tier horses than melee cav. Dunno if that needs a fix though... Maybe increase price of lower tier horses even more.

[Dezilagel]

And if it would be implemented it would only be fair if it affected the players in the same way.

Ooh, this is gonna be funneh

Ready...set...THREAD!

[Wildling]

If horses are gonna get wounded and run slower when hit: How the fuck will we even move when over 9000 arrows are flying ahead.

A courser dies in almost 2 arrow hits.

[Riddaren]

My champion courser usually dies in 3-4 arrow hits unless it is hit in the head which always (or almost always) causes it to die instantly.
And I haven't noticed much difference with armoured horses, seems they die from 1 hit to head just as easy as unarmoured ones which feels a bit wrong. All bows but longbow makes piercing damage so that shouldn't happen so easily to armoured heads.

[La Makina]

If horses are gonna get wounded and run slower when hit: How the fuck will we even move when over 9000 arrows are flying ahead.

A courser dies in almost 2 arrow hits.

That is why I suggest buffing horses's HP at the same time (horses weight from 500 kgs to 1 ton, they should have a lot of HP).

They will survive longer but, as they get wounded, become less efficient. See also that the rider would have a chance of dismounting before his horse get killed, throwing him off the floor.

[Belatu]

Horses should have their free will. The lower riding skill the harder they should be to manouver.
This could be a terrible idea and maybe impossbile to implement but I find it interesting. Bows already have accuracy randomness so why not the horses?

(click to show/hide)

X % chance that the horse doesn't obey your action. The horse instead makes a random action out of the following (except the action given): NOTHING, FORWARD, REVERSE, LEFT, RIGHT, JUMP, CTRL+J.
A dedicated horsmen would need a riding skill of 5-6+ to not be affected so much by this annoying but realistic randomness. If you are quick with your fingers (skilled irl) you would still manage to deal with it pretty well unless it is a CTRL+J.

Riding 1: -
Riding 2: 8% chance.
Riding 3: 6% chance.
Riding 4: 4% chance.
Riding 5: 1% chance.
Riding 6: 0.5% chance.
Riding 7: 0.1% chance.
Riding 8: -
Riding 9: -
Riding 9: -

This is a very intelligent idea, and it gives back the sensation of reality where a horse is not a machine.  +1

[Calimaw]

This is a very intelligent idea, and it gives back the sensation of reality where a horse is not a machine.  +1

So would this mean, for example, a horse that requires 2 riding now, would be willful about where it wants to go? or would 2 riding negate it entirely, and 1 riding would make it fight you for control.

[Bulzur]

My champion courser usually dies in 3-4 arrow hits unless it is hit in the head which always (or almost always) causes it to die instantly.
And I haven't noticed much difference with armoured horses, seems they die from 1 hit to head just as easy as unarmoured ones which feels a bit wrong. All bows but longbow makes piercing damage so that shouldn't happen so easily to armoured heads.

First, yep, i guess you wrote it wrong, so it's cutting instead of piercing.
2nd, the "seems" is indeed what it seems like, a false impression. No longbow with 6 PS can insta 1hit an armoured horse in the head.
Also, it's funny how all thoses "usually 3/4" arrows, and "almost always one shot in the head" ALWAYS only take in consideration longbow with 6 PD, and not the strong bow with 5 PD wich deals quite a bit less damage.

And again, i'm sure you get focused by xbows too, and thoses sure deal way more damage than any bows, with a slightly better accuracy at mid range.

Back to topic :
+1 to horses should have their free will, the percentage of free will is really low and would only make it more interesting. Plus it wouldn't bother at all the dedicated cav.

+1 for buff armo hp, if La MAkina's two ideas are added. And only slow the horse once it has taken at least 50% damage, that way, cav can still ride a bit to dangerous zones at their normal speed.

[Torben]

Cheers guys,  glad too see a lot of interesting  ideas