Why Greeks are poor

[Leshma]

Not knowing actual causes, but,

I thought Greeks didn't work past 55 and shit like that.

Common misconception is that people in poor countries go into retirement sooner than others. Actually it is completely the opposite as Panos said. For example, in Europe country where people spend the least time working is Austria. But they do quality work during that time and don't have high rate of corruption.

In communist Yugoslavia, my mother and her colleagues used to work 26 hours a day (18 hours overtime) before my father was hired as manager and stopped that bullshit. It was a way to get higher salary through overtime bonuses and most people abused it. Corruption killed Yugoslavia and Greece, not general laziness.

Edit: Another example. I know Croats who work in Austrian banks in Croatia and quite often travel to Austria for seminars and stuff like that. They have figured a way how to avoid paying bus tickets in Vienna and every single one of them is abusing it. Austrians aren't dumb so they can't figure it on their own. It is the mentality thing, nothing else. They know their country is going to become shit if they abuse, so they refrain from doing it. Unlike us, Slavs.

[Leshma]

Would be easier to simply not take out loans you can't pay back

Greece did it anyway

lol at americans talking about loans they can't pay back

[Falka]

Edit: Another example. I know Croats who work in Austrian banks in Croatia and quite often travel to Austria for seminars and stuff like that. They have figured a way how to avoid paying bus tickets in Vienna and every single one of them is abusing it. Austrians aren't dumb so they can't figure it on their own. It is the mentality thing, nothing else. They know their country is going to become shit if they abuse, so they refrain from doing it. Unlike us, Slavs.

So true.

[Leshma]

AH, So that is where my statement came from. The Government workers overpaid and under worked. Sounds typical of most Western Countries. Government jobs are cushy, easy and worth lots of benefits.

Government workers have solid paid jobs, problem is that private sector isn't functioning well due to two reasons. First is that government kills private sector with taxes and inefficient laws that cripple the actual economy. Second reason is capitalism, every single private owner in my country believes it is his god given right to become rich in no time, therefore he avoids paying taxes (hates government because they won't allow him to become rich as fast he would like) and pays minimal wages for his workers and many of them create black market.

Government jobs are cushy and easy but that is because bureaucracy is inefficient as fuck. Even if you wanted, you can't change a god damn thing and often people who work from government are picked based on membership in political parties, not by actual skills. I can organize local city government better in under a week, and I'm not particularly skilled or smart guy. There is simply no desire to make things better and that stems both from the top and the bottom but those at the top, being way more responsible are main reason why government is so inefficient.

[Lt_Anders]

lol at americans talking about loans they can't pay back

Heh, if you think about it, America can just "print" 17 trillion dollars and say "DONE PAID" for all our debts...only if we want 600% inflation though, ugh.

Oh and 7->14 trillion in debt in 8 years is so, so bad. Americans are so dumb.

[Leshma]

Didn't say you are dumb. You are aware of the fact that you can do whatever the fuck you want as long you're major military superpower.

What it is silly laughing at other for taking loans they can't pay back when your banks were giving a massive loan to every hobo with a wooden shack, probably hoping that will raise the spending and create more jobs which after some time will create enough value to nullify debt. But it didn't. And because of you and your government every single country on this planet had to suffer.

[Lt_Anders]

Didn't say you are dumb. You are aware of the fact that you can do whatever the fuck you want as long you're major military superpower.

What it is silly laughing at other for taking loans they can't pay back when your banks were giving a massive loan to every hobo with a wooden shack, probably hoping that will raise the spending and create more jobs which after some time will create enough value to nullify debt. But it didn't. And because of you and your government every single country on this planet had to suffer.

Ah, blame the government for passing laws(at the behest of liberals and certain banks) that clearly allowed people who should never be given loans the option to have loans cause "IT"S DISCRIMINATORY" BS.

[lombardsoup]

Ah, blame the government for passing laws(at the behest of liberals and certain banks) that clearly allowed people who should never be given loans the option to have loans cause "IT"S DISCRIMINATORY" BS.

Nope, its my fault.  I personally strong-armed Greece into taking all of those bailouts

Death to USA

tl;dr Why Greeks are poor: Greeks

[Wiltzu]

April 2002

(click to show/hide)

The Finnish press released few years ago few examples that Greece does different (than Finland in this case) and which might be the reason their economy isn't the best. One of them was that they get bonus if they arrive at work on time and the work day starts when you leave your home and ends when you come to your home. Now of course this can't be the case in every job, but still that's fucked up.

[Patoson]

They're poor because they're stupid.

http://ec.europa.eu/public_opinion/archives/ebs/ebs_158_en.pdf

I agree. The less people are learned, the easier they are manipulated. Governments pillage public money while they cut civil rights and give money/favours to lobbies, and then they lie and blame others in front of the cameras and through media bought by them, and stupid people believe them.

Education is the base of democracy, and the separation of powers, which is hard to see but is how it should be.

[lombardsoup]

I agree. The less people are learned, the easier they are manipulated. Governments pillage public money while they cut civil rights and give money/favours to lobbies, and then they lie and blame others in front of the cameras and through media bought by them, and stupid people believe them.

Education is the base of democracy, and the separation of powers, which is hard to see but is how it should be.

Its easier for the Greeks to pin the blame for their problems on other countries.  As long as they keep taking that route, the situation won't change.

[Swaggart]

Anders you are clueless as usual.

Public sector jobs pay well and have good bonuses. Well yes, they have to in order to attract talent. Unless of course you want people who are unqualified to work in government jobs that don't pay well or have good bonuses, they you will end up with government positions filled by unmotivated idiots.

As to the whole deregulation of the financial sector nonsense you posted, deregulation started under Reagan the paragon of the American right wing. Granted, Clinton signed the repeal of Glasse-Steagall which basically let the banks run free, but to claim this was because liberals were complaining because people couldn't get mortgages is about the most ridiculous and asinine thing you've said, and you've said tons of stupid and asinine things. How you can oversimplify such a complex crisis into "it was the liberals fault" is just astounding.

[Xant]

Anders you are clueless as usual.

#shocked

[Lt_Anders]

As to the whole deregulation of the financial sector nonsense you posted, deregulation started under Reagan the paragon of the American right wing. Granted, Clinton signed the repeal of Glasse-Steagall which basically let the banks run free, but to claim this was because liberals were complaining because people couldn't get mortgages is about the most ridiculous and asinine thing you've said, and you've said tons of stupid and asinine things. How you can oversimplify such a complex crisis into "it was the liberals fault" is just astounding.

Actually, that wasn't the bill I was referring to. Please fact check the bills. It was 2 bills:
The Housing and Community Development Act of 1992
The Community Reinvestment Act

And this initiative started under Clintion:
The National Homeownership Strategy: Partners in the American Dream

I'm sorry if you think I'm in the wrong, but I work in that Industry and I can tell you that people created a housing bubble based on toxic assets (though not the root cause, but a symptomof our 90's attitude of over abundance).

In fact, Locally, we are almost back to 2008 housing bubble levels again, which makes me very afraid(but is good for my money and business).

And the bill that you are referencing was repealed in 1999 (with a Republican Majority then.), but the initial developments started in 1995 under a democrat majority.

Public sector jobs pay well and have good bonuses. Well yes, they have to in order to attract talent. Unless of course you want people who are unqualified to work in government jobs that don't pay well or have good bonuses, they you will end up with government positions filled by unmotivated idiots.

Also, to this. Are you seriously telling me government workers get good pay(and should?) compared to a non-government worker. Wow. Are you fucking stupid?

That isn't how government gets high pay, or even why they would. You want to know why:
Unions > Give political power > keeps politicians in power.

Course, anything I say on Unions should be taking as a grain, cause I'm a heavy Anti-Unionist and despise Unions.

[Swaggart]

Anders if you seriously think banks were forced to give out sub prime mortgages because of fears they would be called out for discrimination as opposed to their own greed I'm not going to even bother trying to talk you out of it. i would say that you're trolling but you're not which is the depressing part.

And like I said, but perhaps you can't read well so I'll repeat: government jobs must be well paying with benefits to attract talent. Yes, they have strong unions but so did every industry before they were successively gutted by right wing administrations.