Steel Pick..?

[Shablagoo]

Diomedes, I agree, probably 2-3 speed slower +5 length, -2 damage and that should be perfect. 

Steel pick
Range: 69
Speed: 96
Pierce damage: 31

I think everyone can agree that this is perfectly balanced.  Thread over. 

[Diomedes]

97 seems better to me, just for parity with the warhammer.

[Gurnisson]

Steel pick
Range: 69
Speed: 96
Pierce damage: 31

I think everyone can agree that this is perfectly balanced.  Thread over.

Military Pick:
weapon length: 70
weight: 2.3
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 98
weapon length: 70
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 31 pierce
slots: 1

Jog on, buddy!

[San]

I think the steel pick is fine. I don't really see the game centralizing upon this item, especially compared to other classes and weapons. You can scream nerf but all of these surgical changes are unhealthy in the end.

[Seawied]

I think the steel pick is fine. I don't really see the game centralizing upon this item, especially compared to other classes and weapons. You can scream nerf but all of these surgical changes are unhealthy in the end.

people complain all the time about the bec de corbin... yet this weapon does only 3 less damage and is WAY faster than a bec, only takes up 1 slot, and can be used with a shield. I was going to take the time to list all the 2h and polearm weapons that this does more damage than, but the list is so ridiculously long that it would take forever to write.

[Diomedes]

I think the steel pick is fine. I don't really see the game centralizing upon this item, especially compared to other classes and weapons. You can scream nerf but all of these surgical changes are unhealthy in the end.

Why?

[Shablagoo]

Military Pick:
weapon length: 70
weight: 2.3
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 98
weapon length: 70
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 31 pierce
slots: 1

Jog on, buddy!

Yup.  That's the joke. 

[Bulzur]

I play an hybrid 1h/archer, with "only" 100 wpf in 1h, 5 PS, and... a fighting pick. (i don't have money ) As soon as i loot a steel pick, i just want to drop my bow and go melee, since the weapon is awesome. The pierce damage, a good footwork, and easy headhits makes it a deadly weapon. No wonder the 3rd heirloom is "deadly steel pick". Who cares about the range, i block once and i'm in range. Don't even need a shield for it.

Thing is, usually, when you have the same sort of weapon, having a "higher tier" version of ones, gives : more damage, less speed. What we have here with the steel pick is : more damage, more speed. So it's WAY better than the military pick, for a mere 2k more gold. That's why we see close to no military pick around. Or you can afford the steel pick, or you'll take the fighting pick.

Fighting Pick
weapon length: 70
weight: 1.5
difficulty: 8
speed rating: 98
weapon length: 70
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 25 pierce
slots: 1
Cost : 1534 gold

Difference between fighting and military :
+0,8 weight, + 5 difficulty, +6 dmg.

Military Pick
weapon length: 70
weight: 2.3
difficulty: 13
speed rating: 98
weapon length: 70
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 31 pierce
slots: 1
Cost : 6094 gold

Difference between fighting and military :
-1 difficulty, +2 dmg, +1 speed.
So you actually get a better weapon, that you can use earlier than the previously (less str needed). Something is just not right. -_-

Steel Pick
weapon length: 64
weight: 2.3
difficulty: 12
speed rating: 99
weapon length: 64
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 33 pierce
slots: 1
Cost : 8373 gold

I would propose this version :
Steel Pick
weapon length: 67 (+3)
weight: 2.3
difficulty: 14  (+2)
speed rating: 97   (-2)
weapon length: 67 (+3)
thrust damage: 0 pierce
swing damage: 33 pierce
slots: 1
Cost : 8373 gold
It's still valuable thanks to the high pierce damage, but more balanced statwise. And i don't care at all about the length, so just put a +3 there.

[Digglez]

people complain all the time about the bec de corbin... yet this weapon does only 3 less damage and is WAY faster than a bec, only takes up 1 slot, and can be used with a shield. I was going to take the time to list all the 2h and polearm weapons that this does more damage than, but the list is so ridiculously long that it would take forever to write.

except a steel pick doesnt stun you, guaranteeing a free 2nd hit.  And people using a steel pick also have shield skills and therefore generally less PS.  Quit crying about it already.

Bec users probably outnumber pick users 10:1 easily

[Seawied]

except a steel pick doesnt stun you, guaranteeing a free 2nd hit.  And people using a steel pick also have shield skills and therefore generally less PS.  Quit crying about it already.

Bec isn't fast enough for permastun. If you get stunned out of a second block, then you either have lag issues, or just plain suck.

[Diomedes]

except a steel pick doesnt stun you, guaranteeing a free 2nd hit.  And people using a steel pick also have shield skills and therefore generally less PS.  Quit crying about it already.

Bec users probably outnumber pick users 10:1 easily

I've used a steel pick with 24/15 quite happily and can still 1-shot guys in full plate if I get a head hit, or 2-hit if I get good body shots.  Also, as I already said, the frequency with which a weapon is used is irrelevant to whether or not it is overpowered.

[Digglez]

the frequency with which a weapon is used is irrelevant to whether or not it is overpowered.

Actually that is EXACTLY THE POINT.  If it was so overpowered you would see a HUGE SURGE in the number of people using it, just like you do with polearms right now.  The fact that is is UNCOMMON proves exactly that is just fine and balanced.

Maybe you've been asleep thru your internet gaming, people will gravitate toward what gives them the most reward for the energy involved, and that sure aint picks.

[Keshian]

Actually that is EXACTLY THE POINT.  If it was so overpowered you would see a HUGE SURGE in the number of people using it, just like you do with polearms right now.  The fact that is is UNCOMMON proves exactly that is just fine and balanced.

Maybe you've been asleep thru your internet gaming, people will gravitate toward what gives them the most reward for the energy involved, and that sure aint picks.

We have covered this point before, steel pick users are actually rather common and are if not the most popular, at the very elast 2nd most popular 1handed weapon.  Just like throwing you never saw a HUGE SURGE, but over last couple months they have definitely become exceedingly prevalent and will only become more popular as the other 1hers got nerfed by the last patch.

[Diomedes]

Actually that is EXACTLY THE POINT.  If it was so overpowered you would see a HUGE SURGE in the number of people using it, just like you do with polearms right now.  The fact that is is UNCOMMON proves exactly that is just fine and balanced.

Maybe you've been asleep thru your internet gaming, people will gravitate toward what gives them the most reward for the energy involved, and that sure aint picks.

That's all irrelevant.  The steel pick is a short weapon which, unless you know how to use it, is difficult and ineffective.  . . .  It's easier to kill with a short weapon than people seem to suppose - it just requires a change in tactics. 

Even when one is quite good with the class one may not actually find it fun.  I moved away from short 1h weapon with the new patch and haven't gone back.  It's not because I'm more effective now, or because of aesthetic value, but because the pick has just one dominating tactic that must be used if it's to be effective.  Other load-outs, such as my current sword+board combo, are often more interesting to play. 

It helps to pay closer attention when reading through a thread.  As already covered, it can be the case that something is easy but not fun, or fun but not easy.  It can also be the case that something is easy and fun but has a steep and painful learning curve before it becomes so.  Additionally, things which are easy and fun can quickly become painful depending on the kind of situation in which they're used.  Your argument is completely unsound.

As a note on your style it's worth pointing out that you're more credible when you don't reduce your claims to hyperbole or clearly ill-conceived arguments.  If you really want to make a sound argument do it right - else you're just wasting your own and every other interested person's time.

[Seawied]

As a note on your style it's worth pointing out that you're more credible when you don't reduce your claims to hyperbole or clearly ill-conceived arguments.  If you really want to make a sound argument do it right - else you're just wasting your own and every other interested person's time.

Wise words. Be sure to base your argument on reality, and not the la-la land you make in your head. As many people have stated, and you have yet to refute, the steel pick does considerably more effective damage than an overwhelming number of two handed weapons and polearms, while still carrying the extremely high attack speed it has.

I can reaffirm what Kesh has stated earlier, it is one of the most common 1h weapons in the game. Additionally, there has not been a "huge surge" in the number of polearm users. In fact, the number of polearm users has remained fairly static. It is not, in fact, uncommon, and even if it were, it would not prove that it was "fine and balanced." Please put some thought into your future arguments rather than waste your own time, and the time any potential readers, with writing and posting of fictional "facts."