Thoughts about "mod is dying and keeping it alive"

[Tomeusz]

Well, I prefer a band of skilles archers with skilles archery physx than unbeatable 2h agi builds that a new player CANT beat, because dont know sacred mechanics of crpg fainting. Thats the reason there are 200/200 nativ servers and many 30+ servers and 20/xx and 0 other crpg servers. Bored isnt a reason ppl left crpg. On TW forums one of former merc(i think, dont remember) clan members that playd over 2k hours said he prefers nativ combat and thinks its more ballanced and adjusted for any player, thats why ppl chosing it over crpg

[Teeth]

New players can't beat the leftswingspam of the good Native players either, and oh boy do they spam often. The good 2h players in Native can do way more retarded feints than in cRPG. The thing is that not meeting any good players is fairly easy in Native, while in cRPG it's impossible outside of DTV. cRPG is dead because there are only servers available with relatively high average skill, aside from the obviously very important accessibility and visibility issues. You can stubbornly disagree with that all you want on the basis that you think using mechanics to their fullest extent isn't 'skill', but the basic idea will still stand and there is no way to fix that and no one to blame for it.

[Algarn]

The most atrocious idea : take the best crpg archers, put them into a castle defense, and watch the disaster. The fact you have ten times more killing power than in cRPG as an archer is retarded. I don't like cRPG archery, but I truly hate the archery balance in native, because it's fucking over powered : your missile is faster than a bolt from a siege crossbow, with pin point accuracy, regardlessly of the armor worn, deals a shit ton of damage, regardlessly of the armor, plus you can kite for like ... well, forever, since the quivers have no weight and you can also jumpshot. This leads to a massive bullshit : give a portable machine gun to a new player, he'll do fine, give it to someone used to aiming, he'll wipe a lot of guys, give it to a group of guys with similar skill, and you'll not even have to move from spawn, archers will be raping the ennemies, with shields or not.

[Corsair831]

[Wall of text. Sorry. It's a fucking great read though so don't be scared  ]


I'm sorry, but you guys are simply wrong. You're outsiders looking in through a lens, and not seeing what is there.

I'm good at native, i've played thousands of hours with it, played hundreds of clan matches etc, and I have also played thousands of hours of cRPG, so I think I can give you some perspective on this.

In native, every single infantryman should either be carrying a throwing weapon, or a spear. In native, the game is balanced so that archers (less so much crossbowmen), get very gimped armour, and have very low hit points.

2 Javelins, 3 at max, is easily enough to kill an archer. 2 throwing axes certainly will.
The throwing is much more accurate, faster reloading, and faster missile speed, in native, than it is in cRPG.
Archers don't get shields. 3 infantrymen, versus 3 archers, at medium range, will the majority of the time, beat the 3 archers (if the infantry and the archers are of equal skill level, and none are novices).

Shields, in native (the meta shield is always the t3 shield, no matter the faction), can absorb huge amounts of arrows and/or crossbow bolts. Shields, in native, have huge sideways ranged coverage. If you're being shot, either your team is already losing hard, or you're doing something wrong.

Lastly, archers are incredibly bad in melee in native. Not only are their weapons and armours worse, they are slower, they have significantly less power strike, and their weapon proficiencies are frankly pathetic. A common meta for good players to beat archers as infantry in native (if you have ~~35+ armour), is to simply spam and let the archer's swing bounce. Archers are honestly awful in melee combat in native.

Archery in native not this overpowered beast that so many cRPG players seem to think it is, it really isn't. I understand how after palying cRPG and then going to native you could get that impression; it's an easy view to get, you just need to look a little deeper.

[Tomeusz]

Well, In crpg I have like 3/10 or sometimes 1/1 stats and when playd native as cav got like 27/3 every match. It was easier playing this game, everything wasnt so resistable and slow as in crpg and I just made kills with my direct aiming and predicting enemy movement, not getting dissed by thousands of faints faster than I can block. Maybe thats why ppl prefere it over crpg. It creates immersion of battle, not one man heroes fainting spam;).

I would like something in the middle of native simplicity and replayability and crpg skill factor(without so much faints).

[Teeth]

Sure Native ranged is not unstoppable, but it sure as hell limits what you can play, here's a list of what you could play on EU1 with Native ranged:
- More ranged
- Cav, provided you have your own ranged that surpresses the enemy ranged or a coördinated charge, otherwise ^ (and we all know cav just avoids good ranged on EU1 until they have no easier targets anymore)
- Infantry with a shield, provided you have your own ranged that is surpressing the enemy ranged and prevents them from kiting or encircling, otherwise ^^

Boom, gone is the four-directional blocking system from relevant play, gone are 80% of the playstyles and weapons from relevant play. Much interesting, such variety. Archery is good in cRPG if you are good, thank fuck that a few dozen other playstyles are also good if you are good.

[Corsair831]

Native ranged on EU1? That's a silly thing to say, the rest of cRPG is not balanced for native ranged.

Destriers (hunters) in native can take huge amounts more arrows than in cRPG.
Players with average armour levels can take significantly more arrows in native than in cRPG.
Shields are a lot better in native than in cRPG.

The two games are completely differently balanced lol.

As for the four directional blocking system, again, i think you're on the wrong track.

It depends whether you talk about competetive native or public native, but 2h does have its uses in native, as does polearm. 2h axes are used to smash shields, meaning you can throw people dead, 2h swords are epic for duelling; often someone will carry one as swadia just for that. (m being the obvious example when he used to play for IG, however there are many others).
Polearms are arguably more useful in native than in cRPG. Just watch chase go on to IG battlegrounds as swadia, with his shield on his back, 50 players on, and rape everyone with an awlpike. The pole stagger which people forget about in cRPG is still very present in native; if you stab someone in the back with a spear often he's dead .. it doesn't work if you have a shield because the re-stab time is too slow; you have to be using the 4d thing.

Sure, native uses the 4d blocking system LESS than cRPG, but, firstly i don't think it's used as little as you say, and secondly, look what actually happnes when everyone uses the 4d system in battle mode on cRPG ... you get huge numbers of players spamming with hardly any bother to blocking and turning battles into a chaotic noobfest of mouse 1 thrashing.

Sometimes, the 4d system is better when it takes a second seat to the shield combat, and to a lesser extent the ranged and cavalry combat. Sure, the 4d system is nice, but as you see in cRPG, if you let everyone use it .. well ... it's not so pretty.

[Gravoth_iii]

Native ranged on EU1? That's a silly thing to say, the rest of cRPG is not balanced for native ranged.

Destriers (hunters) in native can take huge amounts more arrows than in cRPG.
Players with average armour levels can take significantly more arrows in native than in cRPG.
Shields are a lot better in native than in cRPG.

The two games are completely differently balanced lol.

As for the four directional blocking system, again, i think you're on the wrong track.

It depends whether you talk about competetive native or public native, but 2h does have its uses in native, as does polearm. 2h axes are used to smash shields, meaning you can throw people dead, 2h swords are epic for duelling; often someone will carry one as swadia just for that. (m being the obvious example when he used to play for IG, however there are many others).
Polearms are arguably more useful in native than in cRPG. Just watch chase go on to IG battlegrounds as swadia, with his shield on his back, 50 players on, and rape everyone with an awlpike. The pole stagger which people forget about in cRPG is still very present in native; if you stab someone in the back with a spear often he's dead .. it doesn't work if you have a shield because the re-stab time is too slow; you have to be using the 4d thing.

Sure, native uses the 4d blocking system LESS than cRPG, but, firstly i don't think it's used as little as you say, and secondly, look what actually happnes when everyone uses the 4d system in battle mode on cRPG ... you get huge numbers of players spamming with hardly any bother to blocking and turning battles into a chaotic noobfest of mouse 1 thrashing.

Sometimes, the 4d system is better when it takes a second seat to the shield combat, and to a lesser extent the ranged and cavalry combat. Sure, the 4d system is nice, but as you see in cRPG, if you let everyone use it .. well ... it's not so pretty.

Sounds like you are comparing competative native to pub crpg though. The spam is just as real in pub native as pub crpg, if not bigger.

[San]

I don't really play native, so what are the stats on these items, particularly the shields and horses?

[Corsair831]

I don't really play native, so what are the stats on these items, particularly the shields and horses?

both better, significantly

[San]

Yeah, but I'd like numbers.

[Corsair831]

Yeah, but I'd like numbers.

go launch native then lol.

the numbers are practically uselses anyway; they've changed so much in cRPG that if i gave you the numbers for a shield, or a sword or whatever, it'd be totally out of context .. people move faster ni cRPG, they do more damage, but they also have more armour .. the numbers wouldn't really help you unless you had all of the numbers .

[Gurnisson]

On shit servers 2h/pole with no shield might work, but in anything competitive you'll not see anything but the occasional lolhammer and pike (which is only acquired by the rhodok infantry). Almost all the kills in native pro play are made by bolts, arrows, throwing weapons and cav. Don't see how native is supposed to be better balanced.

[Corsair831]

On shit servers 2h/pole with no shield might work, but in anything competitive you'll not see anything but the occasional lolhammer and pike (which is only acquired by the rhodok infantry). Almost all the kills in native pro play are made by bolts, arrows, throwing weapons and cav. Don't see how native is supposed to be better balanced.

well, thats just not true

[IG_Saint]

Yes, it is.

(m being the obvious example when he used to play for IG, however there are many others).

M never used a 2h in clan matches. He used a 1h, shield, spear and/or throwing, same as the rest of us.