Morrowind nostalgia thread/TES Argonia

[Leshma]

Retrospectively, the only thing really wrong with Oblivion with respect to Skyrim is the in-your-face leveling. Everything else bar cosmetics was better in Oblivion.

Well, some of it is better in Oblivion but some things ain't. First, province of Cyrodiil is incredibly dull. Grass fields everywhere, which makes random placement of daedra shrines even more obviously work of C&P designer.

Then cities. Not just that they are closed entities which sucked compared to previous games, but they are also boring and pretty much the same. Very few (those at the north) have some variation, rest are pretty much the same. Town square in the middle, houses left and right, few castles. If there's a river put a wooden bridges. Didn't spend much time in those cities myself.

Dungeons are baad, a lot worse than Morrowind and that is where I think Skyrim is better than both predecessors (dungeons in Skyrim are quite neat, interesting and varied, have few env. traps, not bad). Daedra shrines are dull in every game, it is the nature of them. Doubt Bethsoft can make them interesting.

Then comes the worst part of game world, oblivion... that is pain in the ass. Traversing oblivion really depicted hell nicely because it is incredibly dull, repeating and feels like grinding every damn second you spend there. Hates that portion of the game.

Bandits suck, randomly spawned, no logic used whatsoever. Vanilla game constantly spawns glass armored bandits for bigger part of the game and that looks hilarious and makes no freaking sense.

Mechanically, Oblivion was better than Skyrim. Had few interesting side quests (main quest is utter garbage, but slightly better than viking dragon slaying story of Skyrim). But the world of Oblivion felt fake, you could see the cheap way they designed it straight to use of SpeedTree to generate foliage. It was like scale model of grassy hill we used to make from clay in third grade. Not to mention worst thing about it. Felt incredibly small and you could easily reach world boundaries, something you can't do in Morrowind due to nature of game world (being an island or smaller continent).

But my biggest pet peeve with Oblivion despite horrible main story, mostly boring quests, game world feeling off... was lack of levitation. In late Morrowind game I never used my foot, it was either flying or jumping high for the lulz. That change was done because of bloody consoles, no other reason for it really. Since this day levitation isn't possible in modern TES nor we have proper streaming of data to allow huge cities being open. Fuck Gamebryo!

[Umbra]

Lol dungeons in Skyrim interesting and varied, have we played the same game? Skyrim was notorious for reusing dungeon assets, solving the same shitty puzzles over and over again, fighthing the same shitty enemies in the same enviroments. There are even dungeons where the asset reusing is so blatant they are completely the same.

[Leshma]

Still, better than Oblivion. There is no variance in that one dungeon they use throughout whole game. Just lengthy, procedural hallways with occasional stone pillar here and there to remind you it ain't in mine. Don't understand what ptx enjoyed, I hated going down. But less than going through oblivion portals.

Truth is, dungeons are incredibly weak in TES games. They suck in Morrowind as well.

Edit: Dwemer ruins are also dungeons. No such thing in Shitoriil.

[[ptx]]

Ayleid ruins. I rest my case.

[Kafein]

Ayleid ruins were better than Dwemer stuff in Skyrim in my opinion.

But mostly, I appreciated the greater enemy diversity in Oblivion. In Skyrim, undead were all replaced with draugrs and skellies. There were no goblins, no imps, no deadric mobs, no minotaurs, no Dreughs, no Ogres and none of the weird stuff of Shivering Isles, one of the best pieces of DLC of all time.

[[ptx]]

There was a ton of Ayleid ruins in Oblivion and they definitely were not copy-and-paste. Many were puzzles to get through, with all the difficult to pass trap areas, difficult to reach or find loot, etc, etc. Not to mention that the vastly greater diversity of enemies meant you never knew what you'd find inside one.

[Leshma]

Only those connected with main story, featuring vampires etc. They are definitely not great as you depict them to be. As I said, TES dungeons are bad regardless of game they belong to. Compare them with meticulously designed, unique dungeons of Gothic/Risen series. Even Two Worlds series does better job at making dungeons make sense.

Dwemer stuff in Skyrim looks phenomenal but doesn't quite evoke the proper feeling like Morrowind ruins do. It's mostly the sounds, steam machines that make that special atmosphere even though Dwemer ruins in Morrowind aren't as big you'd expected from ancient dwarwen tunnels and cities. Also, being located deep in Ash mountain helps dwemer to look like something predating something else that is already ancient. Dwemer are a bit like children of the forest.

I always wanted to create real life replica of that dwemer rolling ball (centurion sphere) robot and put my PC inside. Maybe I'll do that one day.

Think the reason why you two so fondly remember Oblivion is because that is probably first time you really spent some quality time with TES game. I played Daggerfall too but not in its time, so I don't hold it higher than Morrowind. For most people younger than me, game of a choice is Oblivion. Just like Skyrim will be for those who are now in their adolescent years. Prepare youself for Steam review of TESVI stating how it sucks compared to Skyrim, how it is more of the same et cetera.

[[ptx]]

No, I remember it fondly, because I replayed it less than a year ago. When is the last time you played Oblivion?
And no, random Ayleid ruins, not connected with any quest. I spent my time just clearing out all ruins/caves around some of the central/north cities. There was a lot of room-sized traps and puzzles and the layout was entirely unique to each.

[Angantyr]

You weren't playing with Oscuro's overhaul? Most of the good dungeons are from the overhaul.

[Voncrow]

I would like to point out, almost each city has different kind of houses and feel different. Bravil and Bruma both had shack like buildings made of wood. Chorral also had lots of Wood buildings with more of a manor vibe. Skingrad, Cheydinhal and Leyawiin had manor like buildings made of both stone and wood. Lastly Anvil and Imperial City houses appeared mostoly stone and Imperial City had huge apartment like buildings while Anvil had more manor like buildings. Each cities houses for the most part had unique designs and the layout of the town while they shared common features were very different. Saying all Oblivion cities look the same makes me think you never visited more than one city. Each city had multiple unique quests on top of the Guild quests you can find there. Then there are all the villages and Inns you can find all across Cyrodiil with quest or trainers that you can talk to. The Dialogue for Oblivion was pretty awful, but at least it gave you an idea of possible quests to find when you hear people talking in that annoying fashion.

I'm now going to do an Oblivion run through, because the game is honestly worth another run through I feel.

[Leshma]

They are very similar in architecture, although we should thank TES lore for that. Imperial City is completely different thing from other towns (should use that word) in province of Cyridiil. You can try to find similarities but you really shouldn't.

Now compare that to Vivec (similar style like Imperial City, residential areas split into block with similar architecture) and Ald'Ruhn and Sadrith Mora. Three completely different cities, with different architecture and culture. That is why many old school TES fans dislike Cyrodiil because it is uniform, one culture province where everybody else feel like slaves. While Isle of Vvanderfell is melting pot of Tamriel.

[[ptx]]

You weren't playing with Oscuro's overhaul? Most of the good dungeons are from the overhaul.

Wait, that changes the dungeons as well? Might have been that, then...

[Jarold]

While we're comparing other Bethesda games.... I would like to point out the pros and cons of the Morrowind dialogue system versus Fallout 4's (and also a little bit of Oblivion/Skyrim).

Pros

Very in-depth information, you can just keep digging
Can easily analyze the information
Can ask what you specifically want to know (instead of it feeling like a gamble in Fallout 4 XD)
(For me) I appreciate visual learning/reading
Speechcraft skill and Personality is actually useful
Some guy/girl isn't speaking for me

Cons

The characters can seem to lack a bit of personality
It's nice to hear people talk to you


The cons are really, really nitpicky. I personally think that the characters in Morrowind have decent personalities just through the short, scripted voice acting and written dialogue. Plus, you do get to hear people talk to you, but not nearly as much as in the games after it. I was pleasantly surprised by the voice acting, and surprised usually about how much there can be. Like in the quest located in Mournhold where you had to act in a play. As well as Dagoth Ur's dialogue, and I'm sure there are some other decent ones.

I'm not saying I think that the dialogue systems in Fallout 3, Fallout 4, Oblivion, and Skyrim are bad. I actually rather liked the dialogue in Fallout 3, Oblivion, and Skyrim. However, Fallout 4's dialogue system is a bit unwelcome to me, and Morrowind really has some good dialogue/books.

[Tibes]

Calling Fallout 4's dialogue even a system is giving it too much credit. Its basically "press a button, to hear next bit". It is truly amazing how almost nothing you say has any impact to anything.

I still like the Witchers dialogue the most, by comparison to recent Bethesda games(I havent played Morrowind, I dont know about that one, mybe that is better). The whole point of a good dialogue system is either burning a bridge with the NPC, NPCS or factions involved or solidifying a bond with them or atleast get them to make the questing part easier by giving you stuff etc. In recent Bethesda RPGs, even the biggest retard could figure out which dialogue option does what. In Witcher your stupidass mouth can quite accidentally burn a bridge you really didnt want to. Its not so straight forward at times and in some times its even quite unfair. But that's the beauty of it. You cant possibly always know what words lead to what or expect what the other party wants to hear irl. And in a game with good dialogue you shouldn't be able to either. It shouldnt be unreasonably unfair all the time, but just at some points.

[[ptx]]

And then you have Gothics dialogue. Say the wrong thing and you don't just burn a bridge. You just die (or at least get robbed).