You'll have to help me understand why the ammo loss is more significant than -3 bow damage. Considering the number of players complaining about the ammo loss and the fact that I make no attempt to conserve ammo while playing regardless of my build or ammo type(aside from restricting myself to only one hail mary per round rather than two or three), yet almost never run out of ammo(once every three maps), it seems to be a problem that is utterly foreign to me. It's simply not there when I play, either in the mornings or during prime-time.
One of the main reasons people kept to only 6PD as a max was so they could ensure a high amount of effective WPF in their builds and thus maintain accuracy.
THE number one problem both XyNox and Bagge had with the most recent change the the WPF per PD/PT penalty changes was the drop in accuracy. Hell, Bagge chose to utilize his free respec to keep the same pd amount he previously had so that he could add more wm for the increased accuracy, rather than adjusting for damage(see below spoiler for quote). The statement "accuracy... has never particularly been an issue" seems, both from player feedback as well as mechanics and in-game effectiveness alike, to be nothing more than selectively cherry picking only the builds you and yours prefer to play.
I'm not sure exactly how you define "adapt", especially considering the context as well as what you're implying. Both possibilities for interpretation that I see seem rather sinister. Balance in cRPG is itself a never ending process of adaptation.
This is probably why I dislike you so much as a person (or at least the persona you present to us). Intellectual honesty means absolutely nothing to you. I don't know why I'm surprised every time I see you conveniently leaving facts out. So yes, let's not mention your build or the fact that you were literally running to the edge of maps to safely come up behind me. Lets ignore the fact that you have a shield and high athletics, the go-to archer hunter build.
The issue with the drop in arrow count is that, unless you are a full 'loomed archer, you're going to run out pretty easily within just a couple minutes.
If there are only a few players in server, you're probably not going to run out, even if you're only carrying 20 arrows.
If it's primetime and there are plenty of targets, you'll probably run out fairly quickly (or at least that's my experience).
With 155 archery WPF on an 8PD build, unloomed Horn Bow, my reticle was nearly closed, which is too accurate for archery.
I had better aim with the Horn Bow than my +3 Arb with 175 wpf and no weight penalty. The sights were even tighter with a tatar bow.
The point, I'm assuming, was to reduce arrow count and increase accuracy in hopes you'd force more skill into the equation.
While that is one way to tackle it, and a reasonable way at face value, the arrow per quiver nerf combined with the weight effectively doubling to carry the same safe number as before, is just way too steep.
And besides, archers never had a problem hitting targets at range before. As Kesh said, arrows go pretty much right where they used to, despite the reticle holding much tighter.
If anything, reducing the accuracy back to where it used to be--as there was a chance you'd miss at medium range--is a fine way to mitigate an archer's damage output. Maybe make them a little bit wider, even.
It might not be obvious if you're looking at numbers, but my main was an archer since early 2011, and, despite Kesh being a little edgy, we've both been archers for a long time. Same as Happy.
The reason damage is fluctuating so much now (or at least it seems that way reading others' posts) is because the strength archers are now 12PD builds and the agility archers who want to be able to move have likely dropped some PD or stayed where they were pre-patch.
Changing bow damage isn't going to make it better or worse; it'll make it
both better and worse.
The reason I'm not pulling for a fix on bow damage is because I'm seeing the arrow count and arrow weight as the absolute biggest issues here.
Archers have limited slots. With a one slot bow and two quivers, you'll probably run out of arrows while being less effective than before.
With a two slot bow and two quivers, you'll be stuck using a 0 slot weapon and no ability to take an extra quiver to make up for the loss in arrow count.
With a one slot bow and three quivers, you'll be practically stuck to the ground with no defense at all unless you go high agility for athletics and trade your ability to actually be an effective ranged player.
I have also heard some complaints from cav players saying they're receiving too much damage from archers now as well, possibly due to the shift in higher PD builds.
In the end, I'm hoping you'll trust the archers who
have been archers for years.
Some archers will choose to be dicks regardless and stack athletics so they can be annoying, and some archers will top the score board, though they tend to be notoriously good and exceptions to the rule.
I don't even play EU or pay attention to Strat and
I know who Algarn is. Dude is a legend.
As for the "adapt" part, I was going for "I'd like it if the players weren't always forced to adapt to the balancers, but instead, the balancers sometimes adapt to the community."
It's certainly true for the melee half of the community, I'm just not seeing much for the archer side at the moment.
Nonetheless, Tydeus, thank you for not being a jackass and actually being involved. I appreciate that!
lol
