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Author Topic: Attn: NA Siege Bros  (Read 8696 times)

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Offline Voncrow

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2014, 05:55:11 pm »
+1
Quote from: Phew on September 02, 2014, 05:59:10 pm
Fips briefly gave NA2 a dedicated rotation of maps that actually suit NA population levels (10-30) several months ago, but that only lasted a couple weeks until the next patch. If he's unwilling/unable to resurrect an NA-friendly map rotation, the only way to save the server would be to make sure the XP/gold are at least on par with Battle. There are a million ways to do that which have been discussed ad nauseam:

-Upkeep should be disabled when <8 players and "teams not fair". Low pop siege is just duel server with upkeep; get rid of the upkeep, and it will populate much faster.
-Fix the bugs on siege maps that have been converted to 1-flag conquest, like defenders being unable to spawn when the flag is contested and defender respawn being time being fixed at 30s
-Revamp multi system for the 30min conquest maps; your multi during Conquest shouldn't depend on the outcome of the previous siege map. Fixed rewards based on team performance at the end of the round (a la DTV) make much more sense on Conquest than the multiplier system.
-Valor is too rare on siege compared to battle; respawns mean everyone is alive and earning points the whole round, so the factor required for valor should be reduced
etc...

It's not just maps that are targeted for a larger pop that are the problem. Like Jona said about that map with the two doors(they actually made it three doors that the enemy can open at will). It's crappy maps like that that kill siege when a good pop is 30. There are a ton of maps like that that should be removed, ones that are just broken. And then there are a lot of maps that are just bad, irrelevant of population, that should be removed. In general, we need someone to go through the maps again, and I think it shouldn't be fips since he's the one who put it there in the first place.
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Offline Phew

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2014, 06:08:43 pm »
+1
Quote from: Voncrow on September 03, 2014, 05:55:11 pm
In general, we need someone to go through the maps again, and I think it shouldn't be fips since he's the one who put it there in the first place.

Yeah, if NA2 was nothing but Native/ATS siege maps (plus maybe H. Monastery), I'd happily play that until the mod died for good. But the rotation now has more broken maps than 3 years ago, which is ridiculous. I appreciate everyone that volunteers on this mod, but objectively speaking NA2 has only declined under Fips' stewardship, so some new blood would be nice.
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Offline Fips

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2014, 06:47:43 pm »
0
I said it plenty of times and i will say it again. Get me someone for the scene management from NA that you think will fit the position, let tydeus, san and canary speak for that person and i'll let him meddle with the NA cycle as much as he wants.

Because concerning EU siege i seem to be doing just fine.
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Offline Tojo

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2014, 06:58:27 pm »
+3
I nominate myself let me know when I'm scene manager
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Offline Phew

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2014, 07:22:06 pm »
+3
Quote from: Fips on September 03, 2014, 06:47:43 pm
I said it plenty of times and i will say it again. Get me someone for the scene management from NA that you think will fit the position, let tydeus, san and canary speak for that person and i'll let him meddle with the NA cycle as much as he wants.

Because concerning EU siege i seem to be doing just fine.

This thread (http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/poll-for-na-players-which-maps-do-not-play-well-on-na2/) gathered a lot of good feedback from NA players, and you acted on these suggestions to give NA2 a separate rotation of mostly NA-suitable maps. That lasted less than a month though.

Elindor would have been the man for the job, but he quit cRPG in some part due to being frustrated by his inability to make headway with you on the NA2 rotation (and also because polearms, but that's neither here nor there). I can think of at least a dozen people that would probably do a good job, but is scene editing experience a prerequisite? Because that narrows the pool a lot (I can't think of any active NA2 players that understand scene editing).
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Offline Tanken

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2014, 07:27:33 pm »
+3
Quote from: Fips on September 03, 2014, 06:47:43 pm
I said it plenty of times and i will say it again. Get me someone for the scene management from NA that you think will fit the position, let tydeus, san and canary speak for that person and i'll let him meddle with the NA cycle as much as he wants.

Because concerning EU siege i seem to be doing just fine.
^ That's just the thing though. EU siege and NA siege are two different things, with two different player bases, and two different popularities. You can't think along the lines of what is universally good, same with battle maps, you need to custom tailor them to the actual people that will be playing them.

I would nominate Xeen, but I'm not sure he knows anything about Scene Editing, he just knows what maps play well, and which ones don't, and almost always has a voice about it.

The thing that we need to stop doing as a community is always thinking that what works well for EU will also work well for NA. EU Siege, afaik, is still very popular, so bigger maps, and big changes are made with that in mind, whereas if NA Siege gets over 25 players, people are praising their donkey overlords in the sky for this miracle that will only last 20-30 minutes.
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Offline Phew

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2014, 07:52:47 pm »
+2
Quote from: Tanken on September 03, 2014, 07:27:33 pm
would nominate Xeen, but I'm not sure he knows anything about Scene Editing

Xeen understands what maps work and don't work on NA2, which should be all that's required. I'd like to see a rep from each of KUTT and HoC, because they are the two biggest clans that have been siegebros through thick and thin. BQ (Maduin/Demento's crew of Quebecois) and BoO (formerly HG) are loyal to the cause as well.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 07:56:38 pm by Phew »
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Offline Fips

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2014, 07:57:30 pm »
+1
Quote from: Phew on September 03, 2014, 07:22:06 pm
This thread (http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/poll-for-na-players-which-maps-do-not-play-well-on-na2/) gathered a lot of good feedback from NA players, and you acted on these suggestions to give NA2 a separate rotation of mostly NA-suitable maps. That lasted less than a month though.

Elindor would have been the man for the job, but he quit cRPG in some part due to being frustrated by his inability to make headway with you on the NA2 rotation (and also because polearms, but that's neither here nor there). I can think of at least a dozen people that would probably do a good job, but is scene editing experience a prerequisite? Because that narrows the pool a lot (I can't think of any active NA2 players that understand scene editing).

Welp, he told me what maps play bad and i removed those maps. Why would that frustrate him i have no idea. After i did plenty of editing on a whole lot of maps i readded all of them to the NA cycle. Iirc it was after i made plenty of map-comebacks that haven't been in the rotations for a very long time. And i couldn't remember what i did with Elindor back then, so i just went with the universal cycle.

Maybe Scene Manager is the wrong title, Scene Advisor would fit better. He won't get any access to the configs whatsoever, he'll just go through the cycle every once in a while and tell me what's bad for NA siege. As long as he knows what's up in NA2 and gets a +1 from the NA admin community, i'm fine with whoever.
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Offline Jona

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #38 on: September 03, 2014, 07:58:43 pm »
0
Quote from: Phew on September 03, 2014, 07:52:47 pm
Xeen understands what maps work and don't work on NA2, which should be all that's required. I'd like to see a rep from each of KUTT and HoC, because they are the two biggest clans that have been siegebros through thick and thin.

I feel like if this mod was in its final days, and only HoC players were left, that even then we wouldn't be given any sort of authority (assuming Tydeus and Canary would be the ones choosing), no matter how small.  :wink:  Too much clan-ism still exists in this mod.

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Offline Voncrow

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2014, 08:03:44 pm »
0
Quote from: Phew on September 03, 2014, 07:52:47 pm
Xeen understands what maps work and don't work on NA2, which should be all that's required. I'd like to see a rep from each of KUTT and HoC, because they are the two biggest clans that have been siegebros through thick and thin. BQ (Maduin/Demento's crew of Quebecois) and BoO (formerly HG) are loyal to the cause as well.

;-;
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Offline Penitent

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #40 on: September 03, 2014, 08:12:26 pm »
+2
Quote from: Phew on September 03, 2014, 07:52:47 pm
Xeen understands what maps work and don't work on NA2, which should be all that's required. I'd like to see a rep from each of KUTT and HoC, because they are the two biggest clans that have been siegebros through thick and thin. BQ (Maduin/Demento's crew of Quebecois) and BoO (formerly HG) are loyal to the cause as well.

Never give up, siegebros!

Quote
Maybe Scene Manager is the wrong title, Scene Advisor would fit better. He won't get any access to the configs whatsoever, he'll just go through the cycle every once in a while and tell me what's bad for NA siege. As long as he knows what's up in NA2 and gets a +1 from the NA admin community, i'm fine with whoever.

Maybe we can tweak this process a little.  How about we (The NA players) nominate someone (Like Xeen, or whoever) and give this person to you, Fips.  Then you go the the NA admins to get him approved.  There is a much better chance going up the "chain of command" that way, rather than have us disorganized rabble throwing names at the big bosses.
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Offline Fips

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #41 on: September 03, 2014, 11:06:40 pm »
+1
I don't care how this person is chosen in the end, as long as someone does so the whole NA drama is over again  :lol:
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Offline gallonigher

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #42 on: September 03, 2014, 11:07:54 pm »
+2
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Offline Phew

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2014, 11:38:52 pm »
+1
Quote from: Voncrow on September 03, 2014, 08:03:44 pm
;-;

I didn't intentionally leave you guys off my list; SKoT/Hess/whatever you call yourself now are honorary siegebros as well. I remember years ago when it was BRD and Hosps that dominated NA2 (pre-upkeep era), then MB, then two-ish years ago KUTT and HoC appeared on the scene and have been around ever since.
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Offline kwhy

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2014, 04:44:37 am »
+3
you know what might help out is if under the official list of maps on the forums there was a brief overhead map of the pic as well.  Something along the lines of this...

list of maps on NA2...

(click to show/hide)

does something like this already exist?  If not I could complete this list and post it somewhere on the forum.  Would be nice to have it link to poll or thread about the map/mapmakers under the Scene Editing or even a poll thread per map.
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