Author Topic: Attn: NA Siege Bros  (Read 8685 times)

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Offline Tanken

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2014, 06:52:23 pm »
+2
The main problem with siege, at least for NA players, is that there is simply not enough thick-skin in our side of the community. Players get dealt one or two quick losses in a row, say fuck this, and they leave. And unfortunately, with the additional tampering of the server, and the constant bashing of it in the battle server, those vacancies are hard to fill and very noticeable. As for populating it, a clan could do it, just to get it going, but until large clans start giving siege their time again, at least periodically, it will continue to be the red headed step child when comparing servers.
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Offline Voncrow

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2014, 07:18:20 pm »
+3
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I wasn't even talking about conquest, I completely forgot about conquest, I don't like to think about the fact that half of the siege server is something other than siege, Conquest is just an affront to the multi system in general. I was talking about it prior to even conquest first coming on.

Also

The main problem with siege, at least for NA players, is that there is simply not enough thick-skin in our side of the community. Players get dealt one or two quick losses in a row, say fuck this, and they leave. And unfortunately, with the additional tampering of the server, and the constant bashing of it in the battle server, those vacancies are hard to fill and very noticeable. As for populating it, a clan could do it, just to get it going, but until large clans start giving siege their time again, at least periodically, it will continue to be the red headed step child when comparing servers.

This, this is the problem. The first step to saving siege is taking the lead yourself. If you are in a clan, and want to play siege, get your clanmates on. Try to recruit other people as well and you'll probably get population. Then it's a waiting game, people will notice and eventually come.
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Offline Tojo

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2014, 07:50:19 pm »
0
Get rid of conquest mode add capture the flag. CTF would be a rage ball style map with flags to capture at both ends.

Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2014, 08:07:23 pm »
-5
Barely anyone plays on NA 2, its been in that state for months.

Close it down, less crap to manage.

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2014, 09:31:45 pm »
-2
Fuck crpg, let's all go play full invasion 2
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Offline lombardsoup

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2014, 09:37:30 pm »
-4
There's always the dreaded "other games" route

Offline kwhy

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2014, 04:28:34 pm »
+2
Like Jona said, the new conquest mode on Siege Maps with one flag seems pointless breaking the low population spawn time plus (from what I've seen so far) it makes it impossible to spawn as defender once the flag is contested (by even one person). 

Also some of the newer maps this year that have been added to the rotation seem play badly causing either instant wins or mass exodus of players.  This might be due to the population size and inability to open doors on some maps that can easily get ninja'd.

Conquest mode is fun IMO, but x1 modifier sucks the entire time playing it even though I'll stick around just to get some *siege* time in, but couldn't we have dynamic adjusting modifier for things like capturing the flag?  capture the flag and gain a modifier for team...lose the flag and it drops back down (both sides).  Something along those lines?

I agree with Tanken that typically all it takes to get NA siege going is for one or two good size clans just to populate the server and the players typically swarm to it and start playing, but once that clan leaves it slowly fizzles off again unfortunately.

I like playing both Battle, Siege, and Conquest, and it is a shame that these modes/maps can't just be rotated on one main server without people bitching and complaining about how this mode sucks or *siege* mode is for noobs ect, but that is just typical cRPG chatardation.


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Offline Penitent

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2014, 04:36:52 pm »
0


I agree with Tanken that typically all it takes to get NA siege going is for one or two good size clans just to populate the server and the players typically swarm to it and start playing, but once that clan leaves it slowly fizzles off again unfortunately.


This is not true.  In fact, my experience shows that all it takes to get Siege going is about 5 players in the server, early in the morning.  It continued all day after that.

Also, I don't think that the reason siege is ignored is because of the maps, or because of conquest.  Most people just like Battle better.  They like the non-objective gameplay, and the one-life-to-live.  However, a large minority like Siege better because of the gameplay.  A few souls in the server solves everything, I've noticed.

Offline Phew

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2014, 05:59:10 pm »
+12
Fips briefly gave NA2 a dedicated rotation of maps that actually suit NA population levels (10-30) several months ago, but that only lasted a couple weeks until the next patch. If he's unwilling/unable to resurrect an NA-friendly map rotation, the only way to save the server would be to make sure the XP/gold are at least on par with Battle. There are a million ways to do that which have been discussed ad nauseam:

-Upkeep should be disabled when <8 players and "teams not fair". Low pop siege is just duel server with upkeep; get rid of the upkeep, and it will populate much faster.
-Fix the bugs on siege maps that have been converted to 1-flag conquest, like defenders being unable to spawn when the flag is contested and defender respawn being time being fixed at 30s
-Revamp multi system for the 30min conquest maps; your multi during Conquest shouldn't depend on the outcome of the previous siege map. Fixed rewards based on team performance at the end of the round (a la DTV) make much more sense on Conquest than the multiplier system.
-Valor is too rare on siege compared to battle; respawns mean everyone is alive and earning points the whole round, so the factor required for valor should be reduced
etc...

Offline Jona

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2014, 07:56:38 pm »
+1
-Valor is too rare on siege compared to battle; respawns mean everyone is alive and earning points the whole round, so the factor required for valor should be reduced
etc...

This has been a long standing issue that should have been addressed a long while ago, imo. In siege if your team loses, well, odds are that you lost your multi. Unless while on defense you were rushing the attacker spawn and slaughtering all the peasants left and right while 1 ninja capped your flag, thus ending the round in less than a minute, chances are you didn't get valor. The more people that lose their multi, the more people leave the game. Multis are as addicting as crack, and very few people will leave willingly on a high one. But in siege you currently have 50% of the server losing their multi after each and every round, which means up to 50% of the players will quit since they have just lost their long-standing multiplier. In the current state of the "siege" server, the most common cause of multi-losing is some awful imbalanced map, whether due to conquest spawn timers on a siege map or something else entirely (like the map where attackers can walk right in since the two doors both open from the outside). I don't know about everyone, but there is nothing more demoralizing for me than to lose due to some bullshit like that. Nothing kills the fun of siege faster than a map where one team has no chance of winning, and yet are stuck on the losing side each and every round.

Since conquest maps now have a slightly different xp system, where the minimum multiplier is x2, I don't see why the valor system can't also be tweaked for all of siege compared to battle. Honestly the valor requirement could practically be halved and we would only then get to see valor happen as often as it does in battle. The last time I saw valor pop up after a full round was when I went 124-28 or something crazy in a conquest round due to being on the clearly-overpowered team... which brings me to another point: team balance in conquest.

While it is now a widely-accepted fact that the balancer sucks in crpg, it seems to "shine" in conquest even more. The reason for this is with such long rounds people tend to drop in and out mid-round. There are few things more demoralizing than being on the attackers against a clan-stacked defensive team in conquest for a full 30 minutes straight. Communication is key in conquest, and for obvious reasons clans excel at that. I got that absurd KDR recently when I was on the defending team with much of my clan present, and our coordination/communication gave us a huge edge over the unorganized "pubs" that were attacking us. The attackers had many skilled players, but without any coordination it took them 28 out of 30 minutes to take the first capture point... the first of 6 on that map. I would recommend that the team balancer go into effect after each flag is captured, but in situations like this, that doesn't seem to be good enough. Maybe every 10 minutes, at least, the teams should be re-arranged. While this will undoubtedly prove a nuisance to many, it is unfortunately a must with the current 30 minute rounds of conquest. During the time spent on defense with my clan the attackers were generally down 3, maybe 4 or so players on a 15 v 15 server. That is significant, and bound to happen as people join the server and throw 5 or so lives at an impenetrable defense, an say "screw this, I'm off to battle."


Tl;dr: Basically, conquest is fun but simply can't work with the current server population until it has some serious balance/rewards overhauling. Maybe a system similar to strat where every 3 minutes you are given a set amount of xp and gold based off of your performance, and yours alone, would be the best way to approach the situation. A bonus for flag captures (or recaptures for defense) could also be included to add incentive to attack/defend the objectives.
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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2014, 12:56:49 am »
0
Fips briefly gave NA2 a dedicated rotation of maps that actually suit NA population levels (10-30) several months ago, but that only lasted a couple weeks until the next patch. If he's unwilling/unable to resurrect an NA-friendly map rotation, the only way to save the server would be to make sure the XP/gold are at least on par with Battle. There are a million ways to do that which have been discussed ad nauseam:

-Upkeep should be disabled when <8 players and "teams not fair". Low pop siege is just duel server with upkeep; get rid of the upkeep, and it will populate much faster.
-Fix the bugs on siege maps that have been converted to 1-flag conquest, like defenders being unable to spawn when the flag is contested and defender respawn being time being fixed at 30s
-Revamp multi system for the 30min conquest maps; your multi during Conquest shouldn't depend on the outcome of the previous siege map. Fixed rewards based on team performance at the end of the round (a la DTV) make much more sense on Conquest than the multiplier system.
-Valor is too rare on siege compared to battle; respawns mean everyone is alive and earning points the whole round, so the factor required for valor should be reduced
etc...

I like all of these. I think valour is a roundabout method compared to simply providing a greater reward for winning (and probably killing EU1 lol), but it makes sense to at least make it a little easier to get.

Offline Bryggan

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2014, 04:57:56 am »
+2
While it is now a widely-accepted fact that the balancer sucks in crpg, it seems to "shine" in conquest even more.

I believe I was in that conquest.  2nd time playing conquest (First time caught the very end of a Shariz map- gave up 10 minutes after the timer ended).

The Hounds had populated the server, and many followed.  The first round the Hounds were interspersed between the two teams.  I was on the defender side (with Jona), and after several fierce and exciting back and forth battles, my side ended up losing.  But wow, what a fight!  Next round I was switched to attacker, and the banner balance put all the Hounds defending.  We could not take the first flag.  It was easy to see that the Hounds were on their TS by the way they were catching us all the time.  Plus all the hounds are either very good or quite good.  We had some really good players, but most of us were scrubs.

It was demoralizing, very much so.  Normally I don't give up on siege until I run out of gold (then I go back to battle to make some more (wearing the same gear)), but that time was too frustrating so I quit.  The only thing that would have made it worse is if the Hounds let us take a flag or too on purpose.

So get rid of banner balance (too OP), and the multi.  Neither work on conquest.  Which otherwise is the most awesome thing ever.

Offline Jona

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2014, 05:55:44 am »
+1
The Hounds had populated the server, and many followed.  The first round the Hounds were interspersed between the two teams.  I was on the defender side (against Jona), and after several fierce and exciting back and forth battles, my side ended up losing.  But wow, what a fight! 

Agreed, the first round was very close and intense... the attackers won with only a minute or two to spare. For a while it looked like you defenders were gonna hold out on the 2nd to last flag, but then Largos (a traitor to the defenders' cause, apparently) let it be known that they could only get out of their castle by using the main gate (there might be some sort of postern gate in the back, but no one really knows where it leads or how to find it). So after that knowledge was leaked, I ran into your castle and closed the gate on you guys, locking you in while my team capped the flag outside. By the time I was cut down defending the gatehouse from your own team, we capped the outer flag. The best part was that your team didn't yet realize, so they opened the gate, thus letting my team pour in and overrun them, all while trying to run out and save the outer flag from being capped. The confusion was both hilarious and epic at the same time... like a real battle! If only all rounds of conquest could be like that... neck and neck until 2 or so minutes left on the clock. But yeah, then the second round was just a complete slaughter up to the point where it got boring being the meatgrinders... not to brag, but the simple fact is that the teams were ridiculously imbalanced. While I always support banner balance (I am in a clan so I can fight with my friends, not against them), I still think it can exist so long as the score balancer takes some sort of countermeasures to accomodate clan stacks. Custom banner slots should be weighted in some way such that having more players on the same banner on the same team increases that teams' overall value. I don't mind having to fight in a 12 v 16 battle so long as my clan is with me, and it ends up being a fair and fun fight.
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Offline kwhy

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2014, 06:01:58 am »
+1
gib instant valour for killing san, jona, largos, or gallonigher....k thx bye  :mrgreen:

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Offline Clockworkkiller

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Re: Attn: NA Siege Bros
« Reply #29 on: September 03, 2014, 12:12:25 pm »
+3
gib instant valour for killing san, jona, largos, or gallonigher....k thx bye  :mrgreen:


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