Author Topic: Can I reasonably expect a change to the current EXP/Multiplier system?  (Read 5400 times)

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Offline NJ_Legion_Icedtea

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I normally find when you join a server you are balanced onto the losing team, therefore you will only be getting x1 for the first few rounds. Just play and enjoy it and when the map changes you may find you are on the winning team and will get x3 or above without even realising it.

If you are just here to get a high level character and farm xp then you will just find yourself not enjoying and quitting and joining another server to be balanced again on the losing team, and then of course repeat the cycle.

Just enjoy the game and forget the multi.

Offline Little Lord Lollipop

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A system based on score won't help new players as they glance on EVERYTHING. While a proximity system is a little better new players will struggle to survive due to low athletics and the fact that all the heroes (Timmy_The_Two_Hand_Tard, Sir_Ridesalot_The_Cumguzzler, and Elite_Sniper_F@ggot) aim for peasants to pad their precious K/D's.

I think a better system would be to make the multi system more forgiving for new players such as losing a round reduces the multiplier by 1 instead of reducing it to x1.
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Offline Sniger

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Just play and enjoy it

Just enjoy the game

gain and income should be same for everyone. i cannot enjoy a game where im used as a sparring tool for unfair rapeage. the problem is that the losing team usally have no chance whatsoever, they are creamed, no competition. only when player amount is close to 100 (really best when more than 100) we see some pretty even matches. but how often do we have 80-100 players these days? on a daily basis the player amount is less than 60 average.

Offline Admerius

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And now I see this thread, I made a suggestion about this earlier today...

Multiplier system is good.

Effort should get some more reward though, not just valor, and to not break the xp/gold income system why not tie it to something like:
Based on score you should get an increase on your minimum multiplier, so someone that contributes much gets a minimum of for example x2 or x3(it can never go lower than that on that game(based on score, after map change score resets to 0, and thus x1 as min multi). This way the focus is two fold when wanting money/xp, get high score(to raise minimum multiplier) or to win to reach x5 asap.

(Read my suggestion for details: http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/score-should-affect-minimum-multiplier/)


Offline San

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Interesting idea. Perhaps it can be a function of score and level.

Offline RedShield

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As a newer player, I think the current XP/Gold system is okay but needs to be improved as it caters far too much to older players.  Remember, whatever system is decided upon needs to take into account new or more casual players so they aren't left too far behind.  Being non-competative is absolutely no fun and a game where new players cannot hope to bridge the gap is one that will not grow very well; the community with atrophy in an unhealthy way.

A system based on personal performance is not a good solution because the divide between those who play a lot and those who are new or play casually becomes too large too quickly.  I like the idea of a system where the base rewards are significant and consistent with small bonuses for personal performance.

Offline RedShield

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Players can make their own decisions on what they think will help the team to win. Without the threat of losing gold/xp for losing people will instead not help their team mates. They will make decisions that suit themselves rather than the team

It also creates a competitive environment because there is something to lose and gain, which to me makes the game more fun

Again, this kind of system will punish new players who are just starting out.   

Offline Sniger

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Offline Breidr

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At least this is generating some good discussion, I think.

I wanted to add my two cents about valor.  I've only ever received valor about 6 times in my career.  That may be an understatement, but I don't get it all that much.  I do see the same individuals getting it all the time, at least it seems that way.  Not saying it needs to go, but I give it little weight when it comes to EXP/Gold gains.

I'm just going to throw this out there and see where it goes.  In DTV you are rewarded at the end of a round with an amount of EXP and Gold based on certain factors.  Would it be feasible to have a system like this for battle and siege servers?  It removes the multi, which I feel is the #1 demotivating factor for me, far less so than the low XP rewards.  It can also give a sense of accomplishment, "wow, look at all the exp/gold I received for that last map, new personal best!" etc.  I believe it would also make playing siege more rewarding and viable.

I bring this up because DTV seems to be the most effective way to grind up a new generation.  I just hop on EU_7 for a morning or so and I've got some levels under my belt, and I can actually kill bots as a peasant.

Keep it coming guys.  I'd really like to see this mod improved, especially for newer guys that I hope come in.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 06:50:47 pm by Breidr »

Offline rebbrown

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Same shit as always: +3 loomed lvl33-35s wreck havoc and get valor, even if they lose the round. They got enough gold to survive some setbacks so they rock expensive gear. If you're under level 20, you're cannonfodder. You might say 'lol, get skill' but only the 1% can contribute - assuming they do not face the tougher opponents.

The current system favors clan/vet stacking and that's all there is to it. If you're on the wrong side, you'll lose money unless you run ghetto gear. Run ghetto gear and you increase your team's chances of losing. For all those who say 'lol, sell ur first loom point' - you're asking new players to invest a ridiculous amount of time into a game before they can 'enjoy it'. Do you think they'll stick around? Hell no. I've had three friends who I introduced to c-rpg leave after only 3 days. The first left pretty much straight away, the second gave it a couple of hours before saying he felt like he kept running up against a wall and the third thought he could have fun as an archer. Then he realized that as a lvl20 he could only get kills by shooting enemy peasants - who are snatched up by cavalry within the first 40 seconds of the round. Say a new player uses medium armor in the 6 to 10k range together with a shield that's anywhere from 2 to 4k, he'll immediately run into the danger zone when he uses a difficulty 12+ weapon. Getting the armor and weaponry itself is hard enough, but once he has them, he can't use it all the time. Even with said gear he won't be competitive so go figure how killing it is to having to resort to the crappier stuff.

If the mod wants to extend its lifespan, things will have to change and the xp system is part of that. Let it favor those who contribute and give bonusses dependant on the level of the player (a lvl1-10 should see a huge bump in gold/xp for hitting and killing enemies). I'm not asking for lvl1 to 30 to be a one day affair, but right now the crawl is absolutely killer on newbies. Timesinks are bad and level 1 to 20 simply is a timesink.

Offline Sniger

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Same shit as always: +3 loomed lvl33-35s wreck havoc and get valor, even if they lose the round. They got enough gold to survive some setbacks so they rock expensive gear. If you're under level 20, you're cannonfodder. You might say 'lol, get skill' but only the 1% can contribute - assuming they do not face the tougher opponents.

The current system favors clan/vet stacking and that's all there is to it. If you're on the wrong side, you'll lose money unless you run ghetto gear. Run ghetto gear and you increase your team's chances of losing. For all those who say 'lol, sell ur first loom point' - you're asking new players to invest a ridiculous amount of time into a game before they can 'enjoy it'. Do you think they'll stick around? Hell no. I've had three friends who I introduced to c-rpg leave after only 3 days. The first left pretty much straight away, the second gave it a couple of hours before saying he felt like he kept running up against a wall and the third thought he could have fun as an archer. Then he realized that as a lvl20 he could only get kills by shooting enemy peasants - who are snatched up by cavalry within the first 40 seconds of the round. Say a new player uses medium armor in the 6 to 10k range together with a shield that's anywhere from 2 to 4k, he'll immediately run into the danger zone when he uses a difficulty 12+ weapon. Getting the armor and weaponry itself is hard enough, but once he has them, he can't use it all the time. Even with said gear he won't be competitive so go figure how killing it is to having to resort to the crappier stuff.

If the mod wants to extend its lifespan, things will have to change and the xp system is part of that. Let it favor those who contribute and give bonusses dependant on the level of the player (a lvl1-10 should see a huge bump in gold/xp for hitting and killing enemies). I'm not asking for lvl1 to 30 to be a one day affair, but right now the crawl is absolutely killer on newbies. Timesinks are bad and level 1 to 20 simply is a timesink.

so awesome that i read it twice.

Offline Grumbs

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Same shit as always: +3 loomed lvl33-35s wreck havoc and get valor, even if they lose the round. They got enough gold to survive some setbacks so they rock expensive gear. If you're under level 20, you're cannonfodder. You might say 'lol, get skill' but only the 1% can contribute - assuming they do not face the tougher opponents.

The current system favors clan/vet stacking and that's all there is to it. If you're on the wrong side, you'll lose money unless you run ghetto gear. Run ghetto gear and you increase your team's chances of losing. For all those who say 'lol, sell ur first loom point' - you're asking new players to invest a ridiculous amount of time into a game before they can 'enjoy it'. Do you think they'll stick around? Hell no. I've had three friends who I introduced to c-rpg leave after only 3 days. The first left pretty much straight away, the second gave it a couple of hours before saying he felt like he kept running up against a wall and the third thought he could have fun as an archer. Then he realized that as a lvl20 he could only get kills by shooting enemy peasants - who are snatched up by cavalry within the first 40 seconds of the round. Say a new player uses medium armor in the 6 to 10k range together with a shield that's anywhere from 2 to 4k, he'll immediately run into the danger zone when he uses a difficulty 12+ weapon. Getting the armor and weaponry itself is hard enough, but once he has them, he can't use it all the time. Even with said gear he won't be competitive so go figure how killing it is to having to resort to the crappier stuff.

If the mod wants to extend its lifespan, things will have to change and the xp system is part of that. Let it favor those who contribute and give bonusses dependant on the level of the player (a lvl1-10 should see a huge bump in gold/xp for hitting and killing enemies). I'm not asking for lvl1 to 30 to be a one day affair, but right now the crawl is absolutely killer on newbies. Timesinks are bad and level 1 to 20 simply is a timesink.

Everyone could be set to lvl 30 and the same people will get valour and the same people will have difficulty getting kills. The biggest hurdle for new players is the skill gap. BUT the high level/loom situation makes matters a lot worse because the good players are also the guys with high levels and looms. So not only would they beat you on a level playing field, the field is in their favour too

The multi system isn't really anything to do with this though. We could have the same multi system that rewards players for winning as a team (rather than as individuals) and punishes teams for losing (especially if they lose when on a streak - keeps the pressure up) but have better diminishing returns on levelling, and give newbies a more competitive start in the game. Theres a lot of ways to do that like limiting lvl 30+ (less stats/skills), encouraging high level people to retire, giving newbies a few +3's, more XP at x1 etc. The multi system is separate tho imo. Newbies will get on the winning team 50% of the time
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Offline Joker86

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Yeah, I'll just flat out say it, I think it's absolute crap, especially on public servers.  It's become a special occasion when I can have x2 for a round now, or it at least feels that way.  If I put anything heavier than a Byrnie on, I seem to lose money, yet I see people run full plate all the time.

cRPG is a great concept, and I keep coming back to it, but it's the multiplier system that kills it for me.  I don't even play all that often, so when I do sit down to play, mostly on the weekends, it grates at me even more to be stuck at x1, and then the repair bills kick in and I just think "there's another three-five minutes of income gone."

I noticed some recent changes to team balance, and I still see games end in stomps with 20 enemies still standing, but at least it's being looked into. Is this ever going to happen to the EXP system?  I keep reading that the multiplier system was only temporary, but it doesn't seem that way.

I can tell you one thing, if Melee: Battlegrounds has a similar system, I'll probably pass on it as well.  Don't need to develop a love/hate relationship with too many games.


EDIT: I'd also like to add that it makes other game modes, like Siege, almost pointless in terms of progression, and that sucks because you get to fight a lot more in non-battle mode, but it's hardly populated.  Also, I still don't know what this "Rageball" thing is, or why it's on my server list.  :P

I think the devs of cRPG are incredibly skilled programmes, and it's really amazing what they managed to create from such a limited and basic thing like M&B Warband MP. There is no doubt in it.

What they incredibly suck at though, is game design. Honestly they never managed to introduce anything else than what Warband already had, some half assed team deathmatch and siege modes. And don't let me even get started on how you develop your characters or earn your XP/money. It's such an incredibly stuipid system, it started to hurt my physically the moment they announced it, and over all those years it only became worse, because one might have thought that after some time they realize what gigantic pile of crap they created there. But nope, they just stuck to it and tried to make the best out of it, which in the end resulted in a system which barely does the job and is only marginally better than the system before.

I don't know how you can not recognize how imbecilic the idea is to restrict people only temporarily in their choice of equipment. Having to save some money to run around in black plate on a plated charger is unbalanced either way, and when I get trampled by such a behemoth it is only little comforting for me that he can do that only like once in a week. Let alone those people who are in a clan or have fiefs in Strategus and have more money than others on average. What a great idea to give the most professional players advantages on public servers (this includes the fucking banner balance system).

The upkeep system is doing a really bad job at restricting players properly, and you always see the same cookiecutter builds and equipment loadouts. Every class has a hand full of viable builds which all look the same, and all of them play the same. There is little room for effective hybridization, and due to the poor performance the upkeep system is showing you see like ten percent of all items on eighty percent of all players. The different characters on a server differ only on two direction: the level and the average amount of money a player has at his disposal. Which means if you are a random, casual player, the first thing you can look to buy as an armour would be a buttplug. Take care it's at least a chainmail one, better plate. Leather buttplugs won't protect you at all.

As dumb the XP/money gain and the character development are, as dumb is the gameplay itself. It doesn't encourage players to do anything else than keeping [W] pressed and running towards the closest player like some kind of heat seaking missile, with the same amount of intelligence.

If the kickstarter project the devs currently have running gets released one day, and it turns out to be a copy of cRPG just on another engine, then they will have the same problems they are having right now, including the equipment restrictions, character development, XP and money gain, general balance between different players and the balance between the classes. And all they will do to fix those problems will be nerfing stuff. Because it's the only thing they really know to do.

After all I have seen I can safely say that the devs won't fix the problems cRPG has anytime soon, if at all. They simply fail to see the retardedness of some decisions, or they are too proud to admit a mistake, and thus we will be stuck to what we have now, until one day the server gets shut down. cRPG might have become a great thing, but the chance was missed. It is good, yes, but that's utter shit if it could have been something awesome.
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline San

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Make +2s the current upkeep, +3 have increased upkeep, and everything else have lower upkeep (most expensive equipment may need to be made cheaper, such as horses, plate, etc.). Lower levels should get rewarded for personal performance with EXP/gold much more than they do currently, while high levels get rewarded more with getting their team to win and valour. Lower levels aren't able to get valour or affect the winning chances of their team.

Sniger, you're silly if you think I was referencing that part of his post at all. There are aspects I like and vastly dislike about the current multi system.

Offline Sniger

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oh the amount of quality posts, im getting a boner