Author Topic: The Jews are at it again..  (Read 18921 times)

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Offline Overdriven

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Re: The Jews are at it again..
« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2014, 08:23:36 pm »
+1
It ain't a boxing match.  It's a war.  Israel is not specifically targeting women and children.  Innocents have always been killed in war, that's part of the reason it's so horrible.  Hamas would be overjoyed if their thousands of rocket launchings had killed Israelis at a ratio of 100:1 even if all of them were women and children. but the rockets are too inaccurate and Iron Dome is too good for that.

I don't see any mention in these posts for what started this latest round of violence.  It was the brutal kidnapping and murder of 3 Israeli teenagers followed by a rain of rockets from Gaza and Lebanon.

The onus for this violence and for resolving it is squarely on the Hamas/Fatah.  They are more interested in continuing their mindless blood feud, retaining power and creating martyrs than they are in saving their children.

They are targeting civilian areas. Pretty sure that amounts to targeting women and children regardless of the excuses.

Similar attitude from the US in Vietnam in regards to attacking villages because 1 enemy may be hiding there.

You mention the 3 Israeli teenagers but not the fact that no Palestinian has come forward and said it was them (usually they do in these cases) and that a Palestinian teenager was also killed in Jerusalem in retaliation for the 3 Israeli's, despite there being no confirmation it was Palestinians.

Offline Turkhammer

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Re: The Jews are at it again..
« Reply #61 on: July 11, 2014, 08:26:30 pm »
-1
Can you show me a country in the world that can get away with encroaching on and settling anothers territory without having some form of retaliation from the country it's trying to take over?

I'm afraid this largely comes down to Israel's responsibility. Building settlements and pinning in people in territory that is not there's. Persecuting and policing Palestinians for no reason than they are Palestinian.

Heck my wife spent half a year out there with the UK's department for development and just the fact that she had stepped foot in Palestine meant she had to be thoroughly searched and received the highest level of security warning on her passport. And that's with a UK passport.

Why should anyone trust someone just because they have a UK passport?  Is that some sign of sainthood?  Given the track record of the Palestinians I'd be suspicious of anyone coming from there also.  Too bad the Scots and Irish didn't have rockets.

Offline Flans

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Re: The Jews are at it again..
« Reply #62 on: July 11, 2014, 08:34:03 pm »
0
It ain't a boxing match.  It's a war.  Israel is not specifically targeting women and children.  Innocents have always been killed in war, that's part of the reason it's so horrible.  Hamas would be overjoyed if their thousands of rocket launchings had killed Israelis at a ratio of 100:1 even if all of them were women and children. but the rockets are too inaccurate and Iron Dome is too good for that.

I don't see any mention in these posts for what started this latest round of violence.  It was the brutal kidnapping and murder of 3 Israeli teenagers followed by a rain of rockets from Gaza and Lebanon.

The onus for this violence and for resolving it is squarely on the Hamas/Fatah.  They are more interested in continuing their mindless blood feud, retaining power and creating martyrs than they are in saving their children.

Are you insane? this isn't a war to begin with, its a one sided genocide. All the cards are in Israels hand here. There is no proof or claim of responsibility on those teens killings.  Israel just decided it was a certain group of people then killed two dozen palestinians searching for them.

What started this latest attacks by both Hamas and the IDF is the settlers killing of the Palestinian teen and the subsequent Israeli reaction.

I can see that neither side are correct here, Israels reaction and actions are extremely brutal. But ofcourse your reply is completely one sided, as is the case with every Jew sympathizer. You're always the victims.  This is why nobody liked Jews since time began (lol maybe not that far)
The race of arrogant haters who can't see peace because of their incessant greed.

Peace is easily achievable in the eyes of ANYONE that isn't an Israeli at this moment. Israel accepts 67 borders, leaves West Bank ( They're already getting alot like this) and lets the Palestinians make their own sovereign state.
Those savages on the Palestinian end wont even create an Islamic state or emirate or anything close to this.  They'd be your best friends if only you gave them a chance.
You fail to see how similar Palestinians are to Jews. Had it been another nation Israel wouldn't be half as established as it is currently.
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Offline Angantyr

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Re: The Jews are at it again..
« Reply #63 on: July 11, 2014, 08:34:44 pm »
+7
Israel has one of the more horrendous records of human rights- war crimes- and international law violations in the World. I recommend looking it up, it is very easily accessible. UN, Amnesty International, Red Cross, Human Rights Watch, PCHR, the Israeli B'Tselem etc. anyone really. Most any research done by anyone in any field. Anyone who've actually visited and seen it for themselves.
You will have to look very hard or be extremely brainwashed to find any serious scholary work or any human rights organization that does not draw the same accurate picture, including Israeli sources.
Condemnation of crimes, violence and aggression does not mean you're cheerleader for either Palestine or Israel or their respective inhabitants, it means you can look at empirical data and draw your own conclusions on a moral and rational background.

And the official record is overwhelmingly clear.

Israel has the region's strongest military (due to direct US backing), and the balance of power is simply just a joke to even discuss. As is the the difference in casualties, including and especially the deliberate and uncautious (like using cluster bombs or murdering an entire apartment block to get one 'suspect') murder of civilians (including foreign aid workers, journalists and doctors) and children in particular. Israel is better at killing because they have civilians with a few laughable militias close-packed in prison-like ghettos surrounded by the most advanced war technology money can buy - heavy duty stuff usually reserved for real, total war scenarios.

Israel is an occupying military power. Constantly expanding on the expense of security while breaking international law including treaties with (and moral obligations to) the Palestinian people, a small civilian population divided into bantustans with no rights whatsoever except what is non-judicially decided by the occupying power's military, or on the whim of this power's governing body. Living under martial law with random house searches, seizures and demolitions, tanks rolling through their streets and even houses (when they aren't actually shooting at them) and drones circling over their heads (when they aren't actually bombing them with non-discriminate cluster bombs or other illegal munitions), 24/7.
In the case of Gaza with serious and officially on part of Israel deliberate shortage of food, electricity, medicine, clothing, soap, proper sewers (Israel continues to blow them up and flood what is already an utter slum drowning several civilians in sewage in the process), even toys. Anything that makes living a worthy life possible.
And Palestinians are every day subjugated and harassed through their land being stolen bit by bit in front of them, no parlamentary representation, an openly apartheid system, a trade embargo strangling what little economy might have been possible, checkpoints, moving walls, utterly failing infrastructure through IDF terror tactics, innocent people being beaten, tortured and imprisoned without trial (including many children), pregnant mothers dying at checkpoints because they are denied medical help and other violations so sickening they don't bear mention. And once in a while the violence erupts in a big slaughter, and civilians are massacred by the dozen, attack helicopters firing on civilian apartment complexes, on protesters and other 'acts of desperation' from the poor 'beleaguered' IDF.

And what was the Palestinian's great crime? They are discontent with above mentioned wanton destruction for generations, but more importantly democratically elected a party that Israel didn't like, because it would properly (ie. better than FATAH) represent Palestinian interests in what everyone agrees was a free election. And what is Israel's argument? That Hamas doesn't acknowledge Israel and therefore is not a legitimate party for diplomacy. Not even to be alive, look at sickening, official Israeli rhetoric and targeted assassinations of non-violent politicians and academics. Again I suggest you do a search. Hamas has acknowledged Israel and the two-state solution (like the rest of the world), try to find if Israel has acknowledged Paletine and the two-state solution.. (and was it anyone's surprise that they would elect Hamas, just look at Israel's role in the creation of Fatah and Hamas or the social, political and economic situation in Palestine).

Concerning Palestinian 'aggression' it is fully within international law for a people to defend itself from an occupying power. Which is why Israel with US support openly blocks Palestine's attempts at gaining recognition as a sovereign state in the UN (against the will of most the world and really any sane, responsible person), which would also mean they could put Israel or rather the accountable generals and policy makers before a well-deserved war crimes tribunal. And yes, Israel also claim that Palestine 'shot first' everytime (as do some posters here regrettably), but please do not be unmindful of the history of the conflict or the conditions Palestinians are forced to live under every day, and look at the constant land grapping expansion of Israeli illegal settlements, alone an act of war under international law, and similar examples are simply too numerous to even count. Yes, Palestinian militias do occasionally incite to violence (in response to violence but let's just leave that) against its own people because they believe international attention is the only thing that can help their cause against their powerful adversaries, the United States and Israel. This is no secret even among Palestinians, and you see this in any conflict on both sides, including the strong part (though as with suicide bombing usually the weapon of those who don't have bombers and fighter jets and attack helicopters and artillery).

I do not condone violence and I wish Palestinians had the luxury of being able to accomplish anything with non-violent protest, but look at Israel's response any time an attempt is made at this strategy. Seriously, look it up. This is not a major power like India after WWII where the British Empire was falling apart, this is a small, poor Arab people with no industry, most of its good land (most water ressources) taken, a culture that is almost destroyed, most of their educated classes either fled, killed or imprisoned by Israel, no military, no real government, most of them refugees from an ethnic cleansing a few generations ago - against one of the world's strongest militaries directly supported as a base of operations and military industrial center by the world's strongest military, economic and diplomatic power.

Even the solution is simple. It's called the two-state solution and is supported by as good as all of the world. Except Israel and the United States keeps blocking it, so Israel can continue to sacrifice security on the expense of expansion.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 06:26:59 pm by Angantyr »

Offline Falka

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Re: The Jews are at it again..
« Reply #64 on: July 11, 2014, 08:35:37 pm »
0
If we had the resources, I wouldnt mind them staying here for an X amount of time.

And after that "x" amount of time - what, would you kick them out of greece? Where? And how? would u organize hunting for immigrants?

You'd be surprised. For instance a couple of years ago when things got quite bad out there last time I knew a lot of people who actually started looking into what was happening out there.

I'm sure that was great reassurance for everyone involved. Who cares about people killing each other somewhere in the world - as long as they keep themselves occupied with killing far away from my country.
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Offline Osiris

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Re: The Jews are at it again..
« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2014, 08:48:10 pm »
+2
If i was a Palestinian child and i found a history book about the region why wouldn't i turn to terrorism to get my country back?

Zionists assassinate the British minister of state in the middle east Lord Moyne
Zionists blow up king david hotel killing 91
A bomb left in the vegetable market in Jerusalem by the Irgun injured 28
The Irgun threw a bomb into the melon market in Haifa resulting in 49 deaths
The bombing by the Irgun of the British Embassy in Rome. Nearly half the building was destroyed and 3 people were injured
The Semiramis Hotel bombing, carried out by the Haganah (or, according to some sources, Irgun) resulted in the deaths of 24 to 26 people
The Deir Yassin massacre carried out by the Irgun and Lehi, killed between 107 and 120 Palestinian villagers,[36] the estimate generally accepted by scholars
Lehi assassination of the United Nations mediator Folke Bernadotte, negotiator of the release of about 31,000 prisoners (including thousands of Jews from chocolate chip cookie concentration camps during World War II) whom Lehi accused of a pro-Arab stance during the cease-fire negotiations.

The Zionist terrorism stopped pretty much when they were granted everything they wanted.

The main difference here? Many prominant Jews condemned the attacks by the zionist extremists. Very few Arabs condemn anything Hamas do

Israel has no more claim to the land than arabs considering the jews haven't held sway there for nearly 2000 years. I cant blame Israel for expanding past their agreed borders because the Arab countries surrounding them kept attacking their right to a country. If the Arabs had accepted that a small Israel was ok then Palestine would probably still be ok.

Israel condemning terrorism when it played a large part in its formation sometimes makes me chuckle

my memory may be failing me as i studied this in depth at school years ago now  :D


If i was Israeli i would probably be for wiping Palestine from the map and if i was from gaza i would probably support the destruction of Israel. Easy to judge when you sit safe and away from it all tho.



TLDR im bored and this ramble doesn't make much sense and hits like 50 different unrelated points :D
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Offline Turkhammer

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Re: The Jews are at it again..
« Reply #66 on: July 11, 2014, 08:50:05 pm »
0
They are targeting civilian areas. Pretty sure that amounts to targeting women and children regardless of the excuses.

Similar attitude from the US in Vietnam in regards to attacking villages because 1 enemy may be hiding there.

You mention the 3 Israeli teenagers but not the fact that no Palestinian has come forward and said it was them (usually they do in these cases) and that a Palestinian teenager was also killed in Jerusalem in retaliation for the 3 Israeli's, despite there being no confirmation it was Palestinians.

I think they are trying to be as selective as possible.  Hamas hides it's rockets and cadres among civilians just to elicit outrage from you when the Iraelis attack them.  Just from a cynical view point it's not in their interests to kill women and children and give a propaganda plum (which is part of Hamas' strategy).  You'd be bitching at them if they went into Gaza with infantry to root them out house to house.  Your bitching at them for bombing Hamas targets.  I guess you'd be satisfied if they did nothing when attacked by hundreds of rockets.  You wouldn't expect anyone else to stand by but it'd be ok because they are Israelis.

As long as you want to draw comparisons in history, I'll just mention Dresden, Hamburg and Bomber Harris.

As far as not making a claim for killing the 3 Israelis, it is such a heinous crime, I'm sure Hamas doesn't want credit for it and the ones who actually did it won't admit it.  The US did state that it had strong evidence that Hamas was cupable, if not directly responsible for the kidnappings.

By the way Israel did not launch attacks in response to the kidnappings and murders.  It launched attacks in response to rocket attacks against it territory from Hamas in Gaza.

Offline Dooz

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Re: The Jews are at it again..
« Reply #67 on: July 11, 2014, 08:52:54 pm »
0
A good starting point would be to refer to the Israelis as ...just that ..Israelis.

Would be nice if the starting point was moved back a bit to apply to Israeli officials.

Naftali Bennett: 'I've Killed Lots Of Arabs In My Life And There's No Problem With That'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/29/naftali-bennett-kill-arabs_n_3670767.html

Read any other communication from any other Israeli official, and you'll find that invariably all you'll see is 'the Arabs' or variations thereof. Not the Arab people. Not the Palestinian people. Not anything with any hint of respect or humanity.

So maybe start there, before forum posts on a gaming forum.
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Offline Angantyr

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Re: The Jews are at it again..
« Reply #68 on: July 11, 2014, 08:53:29 pm »
+3
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 09:00:50 pm by Angantyr »

Offline BlindGuy

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Re: The Jews are at it again..
« Reply #69 on: July 11, 2014, 09:04:40 pm »
-1
Disliking the Jews as a people is discrimination and therefore antisemitist.

No Teeth, the word antisemitic needs to be dropped from the lexicon, you dont get a special word for it. Rascism is rascism, religious discrimination is just that. Thinking that they are so special they get their own word is half the reason noone likes them.

Now lets look at history: Why would the jewish people be SO oppressed by SO many people for SO many centuries? There comes a point when, if everyone dislikes you, that you should take a look at your actions and outlook.
I don't know enough

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Offline Dooz

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Re: The Jews are at it again..
« Reply #70 on: July 11, 2014, 09:13:21 pm »
+2
Suggesting that Jewish people should be treated the same as everyone else is antisemitic.
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Offline Falka

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Re: The Jews are at it again..
« Reply #71 on: July 11, 2014, 09:17:21 pm »
+4
Now lets look at history: Why would the jewish people be SO oppressed by SO many people for SO many centuries? There comes a point when, if everyone dislikes you, that you should take a look at your actions and outlook.

You're retarded.
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Offline Flans

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Re: The Jews are at it again..
« Reply #72 on: July 11, 2014, 09:25:06 pm »
0
No you are.
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Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: The Jews are at it again..
« Reply #73 on: July 11, 2014, 09:27:14 pm »
+2
Now lets look at history: Why would the jewish people be SO oppressed by SO many people for SO many centuries? There comes a point when, if everyone dislikes you, that you should take a look at your actions and outlook.

Huh, in most cases on antiquity, Jews were traders and often wealthy and a minority religion/race. The majority, in most cases, actually oppressed them for what they had(money as is the most common case). Not for land, or for religion(though, sometimes) always money. You have to remember, since about 500AD and the arrival of the Arabs, "Jews" haven't held the land that they held since then. Most of the oppression of the Race came after the Roman Empire lost the province.

Jews are, arguably, people of money and education. Many do not like this and often blame them in particular. The most recent was the Holocaust, but it was not the first, and it won't be the last. It's also very, very easy to blame a race, or a country, than it is to blame a "Name." That "name" has a family, friends, connections, and it's hard to blame them, yet, by merely calling them a "(Race/Relgion/ethnicity)" you de-huminize them and easily sway many people.
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Offline Teeth

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Re: The Jews are at it again..
« Reply #74 on: July 11, 2014, 10:09:57 pm »
+2
That Hamas doesn't acknowledge Israel and therefore is not a legitimate party for diplomacy. Not even to be alive, look at sickening, official Israeli rhetoric and targeted assassinations of non-violent politicians and academics. Again I suggest you do a search. Hamas has acknowledged Israel and the two-state solution (like the rest of the world), try to find if Israel has acknowledged Paletine and the two-state solution.. (and was it anyone's surprise that they would elect Hamas, just look at Israel's role in the creation of Fatah and Hamas or the social, political and economic situation in Palestine).
The Hamas position on the two-state solution does not seem that clear-cut to me. I have read about denials of previous acceptations and about refusals to end the violence even if a two-state solution is reached. Their rhetoric has been ambigious and their desire for violence towards Israel seems to trump their desire for a solution at many a time. Just saying that it doesn't seem that clear to me that the two-state solution is held back only because of Israel.

Now lets look at history: Why would the jewish people be SO oppressed by SO many people for SO many centuries? There comes a point when, if everyone dislikes you, that you should take a look at your actions and outlook.
What an incredibly dumb thing to say.

Suggesting that Jewish people should be treated the same as everyone else is antisemitic.
How so?