Iraq falling appart

[Kafein]

Well, at least I'm a leech that pays taxes. While my philosophical views may be extreme, I have realized that, like many people holding these views before me, actually applying them is another thing entirely. What I said earlier is simply the objective truth. I, like most people involved, have no rational motive to care. Yet even to sacrifice myself. I don't live in the world, I live an experience of it. The extent of my link to the world is that experience, which will end eventually. There may be infinitely many "existences" that I don't have any contact with and I genuinely don't care about them. Why would this one be any different after I lose contact?

However, that doesn't mean that I don't care, because as surprising as it may sound, I am not a perfectly rational being, if such a thing even makes sense. Recognizing the nature of my mortal existence doesn't magically free me from my body and its reward system.

[Oberyn]

You don't have children and don't plan on ever having any, is what I take away from this. It's the only way this ridiculously individualistic perspective makes any sense, in a "rational" way. Have you ever heard the expression "no man is an island"?

[Xant]

Someone not planning to have children isn't that weird.

[Oberyn]

When you look at it in the big picture, the way people have existed for hundreds of thousands of years, it absolutely is weird. Granted, given the zeitgeist in western european countries, encouraging the extinction of their own people, it isn't. So much anti-child propaganda in media, having a child is awful, it destroys your life, you won't ever achieve anything and have to sacrifice any ambition just because they exist, it's a thankless, fruitless task, it's so expensive and you need to be at least upper middle class before ever considering it, it's endless. Particularly aimed towards women.
Just saying it perfectly explains this standoffish, bizzare philosophy of being completely cut off from every other factor except your own existence. Who cares about the future, just people you genuinely don't care about once you're gone after all.

[LordBerenger]

White nationalist in a nutshell

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[Oberyn]

Oh hey, here comes the resident blatant racist, but 100% ok because always aimed at white people. Poor POC, has no power, so can't be racist obviously. Shit on germans some more, I'm sure Molly will be around soon to genuflect in guilt and suck your dick. If any other poster said even half the shit you say about white people but aimed at another ethnicity they would've gotten banned ages ago. Tell me again, where do you live? Why would you choose to surround yourself with these whiteys?

[Xant]

When you look at it in the big picture, the way people have existed for hundreds of thousands of years, it absolutely is weird.

What does that have to do with anything? Why would Kafein care about how people have existed for hundreds of thousands of years?

Granted, given the zeitgeist in western european countries, encouraging the extinction of their own people, it isn't. So much anti-child propaganda in media, having a child is awful, it destroys your life, you won't ever achieve anything and have to sacrifice any ambition just because they exist, it's a thankless, fruitless task, it's so expensive and you need to be at least upper middle class before ever considering it, it's endless. Particularly aimed towards women.

Or maybe he just doesn't want to have a kid. It really is a big commitment.

Just saying it perfectly explains this standoffish, bizzare philosophy of being completely cut off from every other factor except your own existence. Who cares about the future, just people you genuinely don't care about once you're gone after all.

It's not bizarre, it's actually the most logical stance -- seeing as it's true.

[LordBerenger]

Lol the tears though

[Tibe]

(click to show/hide)

When you look at it in the big picture, the way people have existed for hundreds of thousands of years, it absolutely is weird. Granted, given the zeitgeist in western european countries, encouraging the extinction of their own people, it isn't. So much anti-child propaganda in media, having a child is awful, it destroys your life, you won't ever achieve anything and have to sacrifice any ambition just because they exist, it's a thankless, fruitless task, it's so expensive and you need to be at least upper middle class before ever considering it, it's endless. Particularly aimed towards women.
Just saying it perfectly explains this standoffish, bizzare philosophy of being completely cut off from every other factor except your own existence. Who cares about the future, just people you genuinely don't care about once you're gone after all.

Its really wierd that a few posts ago you claimed that your claims arent based on morals and that your strenght in debating here was the sole basis of pure logic. And now you are here claiming the complete opposite. The whole "children make my existence matter" and "serving tribal unity makes your life count" are fully moral questions and extremely debatable ones at that.

[Christo]

Obe please, take a chill pill.
Or this
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[Jambi]

Stupid leech!
Just sitting there, eating and pooping!

[Oberyn]

Its really wierd that a few posts ago you claimed that your claims arent based on morals and that your strenght in debating here was the sole basis of pure logic. And now you are here claiming the complete opposite. The whole "children make my existence matter" and "serving tribal unity makes your life count" are fully moral questions and extremely debatable ones at that.

Where did I say that my claims aren't based on morals and purely on logic? Are the two completely divorced in your eyes? Morality can only be irrational? I only said that the "morals" I rail against are completely ass backwards delusions. Weakness is strength. Decay is growth. Extinction is the future. Frankly if the whole of western culture has been narrowed down to this sick, twisted form of hedonistic hyper-individualism, we probably deserve to fade away.

And those "questions" aren't debatable. They're the only reason you and I are even discussing this. There is a chain of people stretching back to the dawn of humanity that resulted in your existence, and these "questions" were and had always been unnasailable to them, or, again, we simply wouldn't be having this conversation. The people who "questioned" these basic, natural facts of existence were literally genetic dead ends, and their weak ass genes were rightfully consigned to oblivion. Do you understand what survival of the fittest means? The fittest. That does not mean the smartest, or the strongest, or any other completely subjective human virtue that nature frankly gives zero fucks about. Humans have been subject to evolutionary pressures, same as every other single organism on the planet.

All of these "questionable" so-called "social constructs" just happen to feedback loop into completely natural human instincts, by a bizarre coincidence apparently. It's almost as if they were slowly shapped and carved over multiple millenia of competition between different human groups, and common to every single one of them, ever since the first group of glorified apes realized sticking together against other groups of glorified apes meant better chances of survival. Probably even further back than that, it doesn't take a genius to see the parrallels between human societies and the ones of our closest cousins, members of the ape family that still exist today. Go ahead and question as you please. As far as I'm concerned the answer is patently obvious.

[Kafein]

You don't have children and don't plan on ever having any, is what I take away from this. It's the only way this ridiculously individualistic perspective makes any sense, in a "rational" way. Have you ever heard the expression "no man is an island"?

What does "ridiculously individualistic" even mean? There's a difference between you and your group, which includes your children. You are your body, and you spend your whole life trying to get endorphines. In that quest are included all sorts of seemingly altruistic actions like having children, that unsurprisingly lead to strong rewards from your neural system. We have evolved just so that this selfish pursuit of happiness also ensures the survival of the species. Yet all of it is based on "hedonistic hyper-individualism", any other "morals" make zero sense. If anything, morality is merely another example of an evolutionary advantage. How is it "sick and twisted" to acknowledge the truth, that all these things that you think are noble, fundamental and greater than you, are in fact merely the result of your body tricking you into doing them?

What you're arguing is that we should all be working bees for the greater good of the species, and I reject that notion. Following your logic, if a given strand of humans have a disproportionate amount of people like me (well, who also actually apply their philosophy), then that strand deserves to die out because it wasn't competitive enough, right?

[The_Bloody_Nine]

Their "history" and "preconditions" are what they are because of the way they act and their beliefs.

1) Not all of it of course. Arab and African history is of course heavily entangled with Europe's. As well as situation in Germany after WWII was not only because of our acts and beliefs, again of course. But that's all besides the point.

So 2)  Lets roll back and ask angantyr why it is so interesting to compare. I don't think it is interesting at all because of the history and the situation being so fundamentally different.

[Leshma]

Arabs and Africans were exploited for centuries by Europe and its extension United States of America. Which is why Islam is going so well in North Africa these days. Jihadists are selling those young people a dream of defeating evil forces that exploited their ancestors and now exploit them for natural resources.

I actually agree with Oberyn, tribalism is still strong. History of human progress is story of exploitation. Exploiters known as elite and majority of exploited. That hasn't changed since first human subjected another human to his will. Exploited always wanted one thing called freedom and were always willing to give their lives for it. That also hasn't changed. Kafein and people like him who believe that average human mindset evolved enough not to fight for his freedom and to willingly accept current state where he is being exploited, are simply and undoubtedly wrong. No amount of brainwashing through media will ever change that.

These young Arabs aren't there to live peacefully, they want to fuck you in the ass. Hard. Hopefully they will succeed. That's where I disagree with Oberyn. I strongly believe that it is necessary for mighty to fall, for us to advance as species. Does any of you really believe that we would have all these nice things if decadent Babylon didn't crumble? Democratic ancient Greece would certainly get us to computers even sooner, right? What about mighty Rome, imagine how far would we advance if not for them pesky barbarians from the north? Mongols would get us on the moon some 500 years ago, isn't that correct? Glorious French, British Empires and Third Reich would advance humanity beyond wildest dreams if they weren't attacked by them filthy lesser nations... Wrong! There must be another war for us as a specie to advance even further, peace and long rule of Empire bring us nowhere.