Conquest maps on siege.

[sF_Guardian]

The maps seem to linear atm, like the one where you fight for "eastern walls" and there are like 2-3 entrances and the defenders spawn on the flag every 15 seconds while you need ~20 seconds to get there as attacker. You just don't have a chance.

[Eddy]

It isn't only 3 people Fips. I assure you of that.

Well, i think there are alot of people who are enjoying the mode but quiting because they dont want to have x1 for atleast 30 minutes. Shorter rounds would help alot to get the mod more popular in my opinion.

2. Spawn timers are too short for defenders. I whack some defending guy and about like 30 steps later, the same guy is there waiting for me with a troll face. Not to mention some of the most annoying my old friendchers who can comfortably lurk somewhere safe and shoot on. They don't have to wait a lot after they die after all.

The spawntimer is way to low, when conquest was intruduced first on the servers it was even then hard (with the old spawntimer) to capture all flags as attacker in time. Because of the low spawntimer the conquest-maps are basically killing low-population siege.

3. Forced attacking order quite royally screws attackers as well. Maybe if attackers were allowed to go for any flag they desired, this would make better sense. One could even consider an attacker number cap for any random flag to be capture (like at least a group of 5 attackers have to be present to capture a random flag). In that case, defenders should be allowed to recapture any lost flags too.

Can only agree on that, several points on one level (or whatever you want to call it) shouldn´t have advantages over another flags, on the most current maps there are points which you need to take first before taking the other flags. If you dont do so attackers are screwed since some points are untakeable if there are all defenders spawing there, specially with the low spawn-timer. Im sceptical about defenders being able to retake the flags, it would only make rounds longer and change the gamemode to a "Conquest" á la CoD or Battlefield which would take the gamemode the flavour of siege ;)

5. Map design itself won't save this mode alone. As I said above, this mode requires a lot of fixing, balancing and redesign itself. I have no single clue as to how that balance can be established, yet I know that conquest doesn't work as a mode for the time being.

I dont think that the mode in current state is play-able but that is mostly because of the low spawntimers (hell, i just killed a enemy at the flag and a few secs. later he is already standing right infront of me) and bad/not so good map design. Another way to implement XP-gain is also needed but it seems they are working already on it.

[Fips]

About the spawntimer. I too think it's too low, but not much. From what i have seen there are mainly some spawnpoint problems for certain flags. I've seen all castles get captured and the fact that those maps were played for the full 2:3 or 3:2 kinda indicates that the balance isn't that bad (Not saying it's good, because it's not). You guys seem to forget that defense doesn't spawn at all once you got the flag set to neutral. As short as the timer may seem, holding the flag for a few seconds so noone spawns there anymore balances this out. Not to mention there are different approaches you can balance those maps.
For example, i made helms deep with the 20 seconds def spawn timer in mind so i set the spawnpoints of the flags where i think the average way for attackers to reach one flag from another is about or a little above those 20 seconds. Meaning def spawns are close to the flags themselves. But teeth, who made Isle of Cray (The one where the barracks are completely broken if not taken first^^), let defense spawn without penalty, meaning they spawn after 3 seconds, but set the spawns so that the time for both teams to reach the flags is about the same. Makes for a little more walking but less waiting time for def to spawn, but in the end from what i've seen it kind of was balanced.
I think teeths approach is the best because everyone gets to play almost 100% of the time, but it makes for a WHOLE different set of balance when it comes to spawnpoints.

Basically what i'm trying to say here, is, that battle maps are easy concerning balance, siege maps are hard and conquest maps are a pain in the ass to balance out. So it comes down to testing it live on the server. Hate me all you want for pulling you through this horrendous struggle of x1 for 30 minutes or more, but concering the 4 conquest maps that were played, that's a good thing, simply because they will be a lot better once they come back.

[Tindel]

48players on EU2,  conquest map Helms Deep loads,   after 5minutes we are 25players left.


*irony* I THINK KEEPING CONQUEST IS A GOOD FUCKING IDEA. *irony*

[Tindel]

The ladders on the frontwall doesnt work , they are too short. You dont even reach the wall

[Thranduil]

I think people are forgetting that those siege ladders and construction site and materials they bought years ago when they could use them in battle are usable in conquest now. You have 30 minutes. It takes ~6 minutes for a single person to construct a weapon rack then a catapult. That's 24 minutes of raining death from above! 

[KingBread]

My god i just played Helms deep omfg what a terrible map when attackers have to take "tower" lol its a joke. I have 8 ath and i met DRZ_Parachute 3 times on my way to the flag not mentioning i run first about 20 secs to reach combat zone from closer spawn. FIPS its a bad unbalanced mode that infuriates me when im forced to play it for more than an hour.

Not mentioning how easly one can abuse this mode. Cos when you put Construction Yard on the only way leading to tower then time attackers will have to take to destroy it its enought to whole defender team to spawn back die and spawn again

There is nothing more annoying that fighting 2 vs 4 guys killing 3 of them and when you want to finish last one, three guys you just killed come back and the fight even didnt last long. I feel useless no matter how many players defending flag i kill

[Ras_FrenzYYY]

My god i just played Helms deep omfg what a terrible map when attackers have to take "tower" lol its a joke. I have 8 ath and i met DRZ_Parachute 3 times on my way to the flag not mentioning i run first about 20 secs to reach combat zone from closer spawn. FIPS its a bad unbalanced mode that infuriates me when im forced to play it for more than an hour.

Not mentioning how easly one can abuse this mode. Cos when you put Construction Yard on the only way leading to tower then time attackers will have to take to destroy it its enought to whole defender team to spawn back die and spawn again

There is nothing more annoying that fighting 2 vs 4 guys killing 3 of them and when you want to finish last one three guys you just killed come back and it didint even last long. You seems useless

There are 3 ways to go to the tower.

[KingBread]

There are 3 ways to go to the tower.

But only one last less than 10 hours

[Joseph Porta]

 for conquest there need to be a few changes, these changes dont have to be big but some minor map changes can fix alot of the balance issues. But to really fix the unrewarding aspect of the game mode would need a big change to the multi system but this will not happen soon I reckon.

So just some minor map changes I will suggest.

Starting off with the map with the single siege tower, is it echoing in here? The eastern wall is a mess. The area around the interactive ladder is a kill zone, I dubbed it The Meatgrinder, and you know wy. With the low wall practicly surrounding the one way up its a deathtrap. Now this is OK and understandable IF it wasn't fucking unbalanced.

But wait, if you go left after the second tower coming from the gate you have the option to go left up the ladder to find yourself an addition two ways up to the flag area - BUT NO ONE FUCKING USES IT! THEY JUST MASS SUICIDE UP THE STAIRS! now this is just natural behaviour of the siege player. So instead of pressuring them from all sides, forcing them to spread their forces thin and allowing for a breakthrough we should change the map to fit the average tactical insight of the majority of siege players.

These are the changes I suggest:

- make the platform next to the afore mentioned killing ground accdsible from the killing ground so the average siege player will séé the second ramp, if they cant séé it it doesnt exist. This is a simple change that will make the flag a lil easier to cap. The third small ladder should be removed - otherwise it will be too easy to swarm.

- I also think another ladder shojld be added at the lower wall. Placed to the left of the current ladder - after the tower. This ladder allows for a more accesible lower wall - this one can also take frustratingly long. The ladder will be fairly far from the spawn so it wont be extremely easy accesible.

- thirdly the "citadel needs to get additionobjects that will funnel attacking players into defensive position - this will cause a more directed fight, instead of the retarded open ground slaughter fest it is now - what besieged commander would defend his last bastion like that. It doesnt even feel like the last fight was for the victory. I think thr courtyard could get a buff from a defensive point of view, whilst the eastern walls need the heavy nerf of an additional easy accesible entry point.

Im too lazy atm to also type a WoT for the other map, maybe latrr tonight.

[Joseph Porta]

Get to work Faps

[Fips]

Jeez, bug cmp on irc to restart the servers, maps are removed, getting the update ingame is beyond my powers.

[Daunt_Flockula]

Your are the holy martyr that has died for our sins and come back to life from the dead. You are the lamb donkey of god Fips. Let us rain our sins down on you relevantly or irrelevantly. Without your blamable presence, this community would fall apart.

[Fips]

Not sure if i should feel honored or insulted.
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[Thranduil]

Not sure if i should feel honored or insulted.
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Probably neither. lol. If I was the face of scene management, they'd say the same things of me. =P It comes with the job description. In the super fine print under the clause where your soul belongs to chadz.