Independent Scotland

[Vovka]

Russia already send 10 "Ан-124" with 5000 Russian Scots to referendum
 And what have you done for the independence of Scotland ?!

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Scotland 48- 52 England
#Riots#Rubber bullets#Mounted Police#Putin#KremlinHand

Propaganda 101: the young are easy to exploit.
Whoever did knows his shit

nevertheless it is they will live in a dat new country,

[Strudog]

Just going back to what Fleetfox said about lots of Oil. Salmond has come out blurting these figures about Scotlands high oil reserves in the North sea, the one problem is they are actually false claims, just like most of his claims. BP and Shell have both come out saying that there is not much out there in terms of oil. There is only about 15-20 more years left of oil reserves left in the North sea, thats not very much.

And Fleetfox, your complaining about the conservative government being in power and that it is terrible for the Scots, well sure it is, they are a Labour heartland and of course when your party does not get voted in you think you have been hard done by. But guess what we live in this 'beautiful' world called a Democracy where the leader and party can be voted on every 5 years so that the people have their say in politics, its not a valid argument that party politics is a huge determining factor in why you should vote yes.

As for being dragged into several wars, well all the wars that were started recently have been under labour governments, which were voted in by Scotland and the rest of the UK.

What will happen is Scotland will go through a tough period economically with major businesses leaving, pieces will rise, Scots will find they will have to pay more for things which they had free. As for major businesses leaving, does that not ring huge alarm bells in your mind? Salmond calls it scare mongering, what i see ss that they are jumping off a sinking ship.

an economically week Scotland will find it very tough to join the EU, if they do manage then all i can see Scotland having is the Euro and not their own currency. Just look at bloody Ireland.

Plus some of the news i heard last night that some of the Yes voters believe that Scotland will become one of the richest economies in the world, if that is not deluded or brainwashed i do not know what is.

[FleetFox]

And Fleetfox, your complaining

lol

Well 15-20 years is a brilliant flow of money into the country, just think what Scotland can do with all that. Transitioning to a zero carbon economy is what they should do with that oil money, as well as putting some money away in a "Rainy Day Fund" like Norway (this is planned btw). I'm sorry but I think all this worry about big business leaving Scotland is just wrong. Why would they, its not like Scotland is floating up into space, things will largely stay the same. If you are concerned with some of the big business threatening to leave you should question influences from the establishment pressuring them to scare Scottish people. I hope you are not watching the BBC, its a terribly biased institution ( this has been seen time and time again, I ain't making shit up), Channel 4 news is better. Not sure what you are getting at with the wars issue. I'm pretty damn sure a lot of Scots didn't vote to join Wars when they voted their Labour MP's in. We can just all thank Blair for that mess and his inspiration of Thatcher.

As to party politics yes it is a very big reason to vote yes. Proportional representation is just a better system than first past the post, simple as. Don't believe me look at Germany. It has many Green seats in its Parliament, something Scotland can strive for. That's one reason. Why should Scotland suffer any Tory government? regardless if they only get 5 years, a lot of damage can be made in 5 years! You need to come up to the North, see how much investment we get compared with London (I know some areas in the South are deprived too). Scotland hardly gets any either. This Island is in a mess with London completely skewing and unbalancing the economy too London. If you can't see that or don't think its bad and that devolved powers regionally are a bad idea, well that would be depressing. Scotland has a chance to decide where all its taxes are spent on. That's a important point.

P.S Am I the only Brit here who hates the Tories? Another reason for me to go up north to the more lefter leaning Social Democratic country Scotland can be if all goes well.

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

Don't Scotland get £1300 per head more than the rest of England on average in public spending?

[FleetFox]

Who decided that the minimum age is 16? Young people tend to be less reticent to change, which could make the voting in that age group lean towards the Yes (change) and be a small help for those wanting independence.

Well I'm not complaining about that ^^ but lets be honest, do kids become suddenly more mature and politically astute once they hit the age of 18? No of course they don't (on average). So why not let these 16 year olds vote? Its their country, their future they have as much right if not more to decide on what happens to their country no?

I'm not a fan of the Tories either, and i spent most of my life living in David Cameron's constituency. But i dont think any UK political party will be in favour of this split, unless BMP suddenly decide that Scottish people arent true British after all and that we're saving the purity of our nation by splitting.

You're right Heskey they won't but who cares about them? The Scots should be thinking about themselves first. It will be interesting though as the Scottish Nationalist Party and Labour are the only big parties, but like I said if proportional representation happens, then there will be a coalition giving the smaller parties a chance for seats.

Don't Scotland get £1300 per head more than the rest of England on average in public spending?

Only because their government has chosen to spend more per person ( but I don't think your figure is correct that's quite high), they get a budget from the UK which they can choose where to put the money, for example making tuition fee free for university students. With total independence they can do even more for their people if they so choose.

[Mr_Oujamaflip]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-english-backlash-warning-1-3514735

It was in here somewhere.


Sure with independence they could potentially do more than that, but will it happen? It's hardly a small amount.

[Strudog]

lol

Well 15-20 years is a brilliant flow of money into the country, just think what Scotland can do with all that. Transitioning to a zero carbon economy is what they should do with that oil money, as well as putting some money away in a "Rainy Day Fund" like Norway (this is planned btw). I'm sorry but I think all this worry about big business leaving Scotland is just wrong. Why would they, its not like Scotland is floating up into space, things will largely stay the same. If you are concerned with some of the big business threatening to leave you should question influences from the establishment pressuring them to scare Scottish people. I hope you are not watching the BBC, its a terribly biased institution ( this has been seen time and time again, I ain't making shit up), Channel 4 news is better. Not sure what you are getting at with the wars issue. I'm pretty damn sure a lot of Scots didn't vote to join Wars when they voted their Labour MP's in. We can just all thank Blair for that mess and his inspiration of Thatcher.

As to party politics yes it is a very big reason to vote yes. Proportional representation is just a better system than first past the post, simple as. Don't believe me look at Germany. It has many Green seats in its Parliament, something Scotland can strive for. That's one reason. Why should Scotland suffer any Tory government? regardless if they only get 5 years, a lot of damage can be made in 5 years! You need to come up to the North, see how much investment we get compared with London (I know some areas in the South are deprived too). Scotland hardly gets any either. This Island is in a mess with London completely skewing and unbalancing the economy too London. If you can't see that or don't think its bad and that devolved powers regionally are a bad idea, well that would be depressing. Scotland has a chance to decide where all its taxes are spent on. That's a important point.

P.S Am I the only Brit here who hates the Tories? Another reason for me to go up north to the more lefter leaning Social Democratic country Scotland can be if all goes well.

If you have any experience in the Oil world you would know that 15-20 years of oil does not mean lots of $, some other BS salmond has brainwashed you all with. If you really think Scotland will ever end up like Norway, you are completely wrong. Considering Oil will be Scotlands main income 15-20 years and then what? that's not enough time to switch just to clean energy.

The main reason i am backing the NO campaign so much is because my sense of traditionalism, i would hate to see 300 years of Histroy go down the pan just because an Obnoxious cunt like Salmond wants to make a name for himself in politics.

Otherwise i would be all for it, 5 million less people to pay for the better.

[FleetFox]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-english-backlash-warning-1-3514735

It was in here somewhere.


Sure with independence they could potentially do more than that, but will it happen? It's hardly a small amount.

Oh right, well unfortunately they haven't linked their source for that figure so not sure how reliable it is.

If you have any experience in the Oil world you would know that 15-20 years of oil does not mean lots of $, some other BS salmond has brainwashed you all with. If you really think Scotland will ever end up like Norway, you are completely wrong. Considering Oil will be Scotlands main income 15-20 years and then what? that's not enough time to switch just to clean energy.

The main reason i am backing the NO campaign so much is because my sense of traditionalism, i would hate to see 300 years of Histroy go down the pan just because an Obnoxious cunt like Salmond wants to make a name for himself in politics.

Otherwise i would be all for it, 5 million less people to pay for the better.

lol Don't forget Salmond is an Oil Economist by trade so its not like he is knos nothing on the subject. Again can I stress to stop thinking its only Salmond who wants this, what about Sturgeon? What about 50% of the Scottish people. 15-20 years of Oil revenue is better than nothing mate, no brain washing is needed there. And yes that is enough time to go fully renewable or to flip into a hydrogen economy (see The Third Industrial Revolution by Jeremy Riftkin), but remember this 15-20 year time frame is a conservative estimate, so who knows. Improving technology is meaning easier access to more reserves so its all just predictions atm. And you should be all for it, like you say less people to waste money on eh? 300 years of history? Oh I didn't realise all that history would be down the toilet and completely scratched from the history books . Its more efficient and easier to govern smaller entities anyway, so its all positive man

[Overdriven]

I hope you are not watching the BBC, its a terribly biased institution

I always love it when people say this. When you look at the complaints about the BBC it's both sides that claim they are biased towards the other. If anything that tells you that the BBC are doing something right.

Scotland hardly gets any either. This Island is in a mess with London completely skewing and unbalancing the economy too London. If you can't see that or don't think its bad and that devolved powers regionally are a bad idea, well that would be depressing. Scotland has a chance to decide where all its taxes are spent on. That's a important point.

Regional centres have had plenty of investment over the years. Go back 30 years and see what a mess the centres of Leeds, Manchester, Liverpool ect ect were in. They are now wonderful places and I love visiting them because they have been regenerated with a lot of funding. London is one of the largest financial capitals in the world, one of the largest for tourism, business and just about anything you can think of. It's a massive money generator for the country so of course it will get the most investment. De-centralising that would cause more damage than good to the economy.

Well I'm not complaining about that ^^ but lets be honest, do kids become suddenly more mature and politically astute once they hit the age of 18? No of course they don't (on average). So why not let these 16 year olds vote? Its their country, their future they have as much right if not more to decide on what happens to their country no?

I did. When I was 16 I didn't give a crap about politics and would have voted for the lols and would have been influenced quite easily. The same with most people I know. By the time I was 18 I had a much more well rounded understanding and deep seated interest. Those 2 years make a big difference in maturity and education.

If you have any experience in the Oil world you would know that 15-20 years of oil does not mean lots of $, some other BS salmond has brainwashed you all with. If you really think Scotland will ever end up like Norway, you are completely wrong. Considering Oil will be Scotlands main income 15-20 years and then what? that's not enough time to switch just to clean energy.

Especially if they refuse to use nuclear.

[FleetFox]

I always love it when people say this. When you look at the complaints about the BBC it's both sides that claim they are biased towards the other. If anything that tells you that the BBC are doing something right.

Its not just biased, its just generally poor in its journalism as compared with Channel 4.  Who is this other side you speak of? Surely you don't mean the minority bashing racist nationalist bigots of this fine nation. I don't think anyone should even give them the courtesy of being thought about. Anyway enough with the put downs man, this isn't about me, but Scotland. ^^

[Overdriven]

Its not just biased, its just generally poor in its journalism as compared with Channel 4.  Who is this other side you speak of? Surely you don't mean the minority bashing racist nationalist bigots of this fine nation. I don't think anyone should even give them the courtesy of being thought about. Anyway enough with the put downs man, this isn't about me, but Scotland. ^^

Well I disagree. There's a reason it's one of the most respected reporting institutions in the world. By other side it's usually the left vs right you see these petty arguments about BBC bias with.

[Leshma]

That's not how it goes. Majority decides, rest comply.

[Moncho]

That's not how it goes. Majority decides, rest comply.

The thing is, that is one of their main arguments for indepedence:Despite the Scots voting something else, since England sometimes votes Tory, they have a Tory government that they do not like. So why not bring it one step further? Then the ones discontempt with this keep it on.
Or, if what you said was done, Majority of the UK decides, Scots (and the rest of the UK, but since in this case Scots are in the rest) SHOULD comply.

[Thryn]

[Butan]

Everytime human nations secede from each other, a little part of me dies.
What good can we do if we keep separating the human race into tinier and tinier parts?

On the particular United Kingdom situation, what exactly has the actual government done bad that Scotland feels it needs to separate? And do they really think they can do better than just opening new opportunities for politicians to do things not everyone agree about? But hey, at least they will be scottish!