Author Topic: DTV Changes - some infos  (Read 8232 times)

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Offline Fips

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Re: DTV Changes - some infos
« Reply #75 on: February 19, 2014, 10:33:54 pm »
0
goodjob thranduil. we have already established that EU7 bots do block.  :rolleyes:

Wut, NA7 is missing wse2?! But it's an official server, i don't understand. Especially because i thought EU had to struggle a quite some time until it got the wse2 implementation that NA had for a long time.


@protox2k: Just because plenty of people complain does not mean that the change gets reverted. I said in the very beginning of this thread that it's going to be adjusted, but removed? No, definitely not. I might lower the additional bots per spawn down to 2 so lower population isn't as hard as it is now (Although it always has been a lot harder), but the amount of bots you get for a full server is just fine.

And again, you all seem to forget that i already stated that some bots that i felt were a little over the top, will be nerfed in the upcoming hotfix. And since we already got to chadz wave with the bots right now i do not see a reason why i should lower the amount of bots again. It's also so much fun, especially cav-waves are fucking great now.

Offline HappyPhantom

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Re: DTV Changes - some infos
« Reply #76 on: February 20, 2014, 12:09:46 am »
+1
What are you trying to achieve? Are you consulting with players - or just building Fips' ideal DTV? Why did DTV change? Were people complaining? What's wrong with earning lots of money and xp on DTV?
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Offline protox2k

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Re: DTV Changes - some infos
« Reply #77 on: February 20, 2014, 12:26:46 am »
0
Wut, NA7 is missing wse2?! But it's an official server, i don't understand. Especially because i thought EU had to struggle a quite some time until it got the wse2 implementation that NA had for a long time.


@protox2k: Just because plenty of people complain does not mean that the change gets reverted. I said in the very beginning of this thread that it's going to be adjusted, but removed? No, definitely not. I might lower the additional bots per spawn down to 2 so lower population isn't as hard as it is now (Although it always has been a lot harder), but the amount of bots you get for a full server is just fine.

And again, you all seem to forget that i already stated that some bots that i felt were a little over the top, will be nerfed in the upcoming hotfix. And since we already got to chadz wave with the bots right now i do not see a reason why i should lower the amount of bots again. It's also so much fun, especially cav-waves are fucking great now.
So what can we do to get the update reverted??? I didn't forget about your hotfix but in NA_7 we aren't like EU who may be organized. We're a mix of good and bad players (some new players) who are of course trying to beat it but with the hopes of making some decent gains!! It's just my opinion the hotfix isn't enough but i do want to thank you for always putting new ideas and work into DTV. Maybe you should hop on NA_7 and see what i mean

Offline no_rules_just_play

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Re: DTV Changes - some infos
« Reply #78 on: February 20, 2014, 12:59:17 am »
0
People, stop complaining about the reward, because, ever since these changes, I haven't lost gold at all in any round, and I wear decent armour and expensive weapons in general. And, even if I did, I would understand, because that's how it works in battle too, for example. Sometimes you earn cash, other times you lose it.

I was about to say reduce the reward, but I guess it's fine now since DTV is more challenging and rounds take longer to finish. I love the changes, just as they are.
I'm not complaining about rewards, I'm complaining about leechers. And yes it's true, atleast I'm losing less money one dtv than on eu1

Offline burufeiba

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Re: DTV Changes - some infos
« Reply #79 on: February 20, 2014, 04:51:27 am »
+7
The truth is that in China server we can't beat nomads and nanjas recently. There are regularly less than 10 players in China DTV server, and half of them are not very skilled at killing bots. Without enough shielders we can hardly make shield wall. If the few top players die in first or second wave, we don't have reserve force to replace them.

In comparison, EU7 server normaly has 25~30 players, of which 10, like patoson, uther and cora, are very skilled master of DTV. What's more, they have enough shielders to make capable shield walls and plenty of reserve force to replace the fallen. number of bots is meanlesss for EUers.

Increasing number of bots  adds fun to EU7, and pain to CHN DTV. Please decrease the number of bots or add some maps suitable for 10 players to play. Last but not least, why change the number of round to 1 for each map? Map frequently changes because we get naked in the first round and lose to peasant. :cry:

Offline Patoson

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Re: DTV Changes - some infos
« Reply #80 on: February 20, 2014, 10:37:35 am »
+1
My advice, as usual, is try to play battle or siege more often, instead of just DTV. If battle is too hard, then siege should do. But learning to play against other players, who have complex footwork and attacks, compared to the simple AI, is a much better and faster way of learning how to play, and, once you get the basics, DTV will become a bit easier and you should resort less to - sorry for the expression - "dumbed down" tactics like shieldwalls (constantly) and play more natural as if it were battle or siege.

But, of course, the other part of my advice is not to play DTV too much (or only), or you might start losing skills and/or reflexes that will make things hard when fighting other players. At least that's what has happened to me, and now I can admit that I can fight bots very relaxed - I played battle for a couple of years before DTV appeared - but struggle whenever I play battle or siege, because I've lost a lot of reflexes.

Seriously, if you tried to play "PvP" on a regular basis, you would sooner or later realise that DTV can be, instead of a xp-gold-grindfest, a different and fun game-mode where you cooperate with your teammates against the evil invaders that try to kill your boss. And these last changes make it a lot more challenging than before. I see the team lose a lot more often, and I think that's a good thing, because it puts us to the test rather than give us free xp and gold on a silver plate.

Offline Moncho

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Re: DTV Changes - some infos
« Reply #81 on: February 20, 2014, 10:50:40 am »
0
Honestly, I do not see what you are all saying, even yesterday at 2am in EU we were 8-11 and when I got to bed we had just beaten SeaRaiders. We had a few good players, but nothing special (best one around would probably kCENAi and Zyx, then some averages like faps and me). all you need is to make sure all entrances are half decently covered and some backup at V.

Offline Soulreaver

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Re: DTV Changes - some infos
« Reply #82 on: February 20, 2014, 01:25:16 pm »
0
ehhh, just been 1hited by "The Recruit" with a  glaive right swing(my body armor is 23 and about 60-65 hp +backpedal)... like a tincan   :mad: :mad:

Offline oreshy

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Re: DTV Changes - some infos
« Reply #83 on: February 20, 2014, 04:52:22 pm »
+3
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...can we have this map plz ? i would appreciate it , thx.
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Offline Fips

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Re: DTV Changes - some infos
« Reply #84 on: February 20, 2014, 05:29:37 pm »
+4
After Hotfix bot spawn formula: bots to spawn = (sum_all_player_levels*2 + 10*number_of_players)/35 + number_of_players/2 + 2
Right now it's the following: bots to spawn = (sum_all_player_levels + 10*number_of_players)/20 + number_of_players/2 + 5

If you think you know a better solution for this formula without (!!) making less bots spawn when 30 players with level 30 are on the server (Which adds up to 77 right now, the amount of bots we usually have now and what i think should 100% stay, because it's not even 3 kills per wave/per player) feel free to tell me.
Cav should be allowed with the hotfix and i think i can squeeze in a surprise for when you beat tincans =P

Offline IG_Saint

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Re: DTV Changes - some infos
« Reply #85 on: February 20, 2014, 05:48:44 pm »
0
Honestly, I do not see what you are all saying, even yesterday at 2am in EU we were 8-11 and when I got to bed we had just beaten SeaRaiders. We had a few good players, but nothing special (best one around would probably kCENAi and Zyx, then some averages like faps and me). all you need is to make sure all entrances are half decently covered and some backup at V.

That team that we had would have been able to get to the highest waves in the old dtv, especially on such an easy map. I also left just after searaiders, because I knew we wouldn't have gotten much further anyway.
I still think the amount of bots needs to be adjusted for small teams and low level players. I firmly think that any size team should be able to get up to tincans if they're good enough, currently I don't think that's possible. Even if it is possible, the balance is completely out of wack, it is much, much harder for a small team (or a team with a lot of low lvls), previously it was already harder for a small team, the gap was just a lot smaller.

One of my "goals" in cRPG was to get a 2 man dtv win sometime. Me and Friedturtle have gotten close plenty of times, but the chadz wave always defeated us, because it spawns all the bosses at the same time, which means more than double the amount of bots compared to a normal wave. Now it feels like every wave is the chadz wave, just too many damn bots to even stand a chance.

Edit: Eh, I was too late, I'll need to test the changes before I complain some more  :wink:

Offline Fips

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Re: DTV Changes - some infos
« Reply #86 on: February 20, 2014, 06:03:10 pm »
0
That team that we had would have been able to get to the highest waves in the old dtv, especially on such an easy map. I also left just after searaiders, because I knew we wouldn't have gotten much further anyway.
I still think the amount of bots needs to be adjusted for small teams and low level players. I firmly think that any size team should be able to get up to tincans if they're good enough, currently I don't think that's possible. Even if it is possible, the balance is completely out of wack, it is much, much harder for a small team (or a team with a lot of low lvls), previously it was already harder for a small team, the gap was just a lot smaller.

One of my "goals" in cRPG was to get a 2 man dtv win sometime. Me and Friedturtle have gotten close plenty of times, but the chadz wave always defeated us, because it spawns all the bosses at the same time, which means more than double the amount of bots compared to a normal wave. Now it feels like every wave is the chadz wave, just too many damn bots to even stand a chance.

Edit: Eh, I was too late, I'll need to test the changes before I complain some more  :wink:

Low pop has been addressed with the new formula, at least to some degree.

Edit: Welp, chadz patching ruined the surprise.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 06:15:11 pm by Fips »

Offline Thranduil

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Re: DTV Changes - some infos
« Reply #87 on: February 20, 2014, 07:17:15 pm »
0
Low pop has been addressed with the new formula, at least to some degree.

Edit: Welp, chadz patching ruined the surprise.

Wow, another patch already. Faster than I though (glad I made those map updates when I did!  :shock:)

Anywho, I took a look at the new formula, and I have to say, just looking at the numbers, it looks much better than the previous one in certain areas (low lvls and low player #s). Without going into deep mathematical thought -in other words, I only spent 20 minutes looking at the numbers- the only other way that comes to mind to tweak the formula better is with an IF-ELSE statement.

Code: [Select]
IF((sum_all_player_levels/number_of_players)<10
     use formula 1
ELSEIF((sum_all_player_levels/number_of_players)>9||(sum_all_player_levels/number_of_players)<20
     use formula 2
ELSEIF((sum_all_player_levels/number_of_players)>19
     use formula 3

Right now, low numbers and high numbers look good, but in-between numbers have it tough. But we'll see.  :wink: Thanks for sharing the code btw.
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Offline Tojo

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Re: DTV Changes - some infos
« Reply #88 on: February 20, 2014, 07:40:41 pm »
+2
Yo Fips the horses now spawn with players in DTV, but only last the 1st wave before dying automatically. Just wanted to let ya know.

Also, NA servers are struggling with the bots I have yet to get past ninjas in DTV. There seems to be too many bots for the player count. I understand you reworked the spawn to be based on player level, but what was wrong with the old one? It worked just fine, IF IT AINT BROKE DON'T FIX IT!

Offline Sharpe

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Re: DTV Changes - some infos
« Reply #89 on: February 20, 2014, 07:56:44 pm »
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My question is, what was bot count based on before player levels? Like the formula and what not.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 08:19:48 pm by Sharpe »
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