Any polearm with pierce thurst can rear now (discussion)

[CrazyCracka420]

Perhaps the solution is don't charge a group of 30 infantry unless you have comparable numbers.

I know a single infantry wouldn't charge a group of 30 cav, or 30 ranged, or 30 infantry. So why should the use of a horse suddenly validate a suicidal action?

Even 5 cav is nothing. Try a group of 20 or 25 cav to see the results that would be expected.

Because cavalry never had to have equal numbers as infantry to inflict damage in a cavalry charge.  The idea is to soften up the enemy infantry for your own infantry.  A horse weighs at least 5 times as much as a person.  Why would you ever need to have 1 horse to invalidate 1 person (who doesn't have a pike type weapon braced into the ground...which we can't do in crpg, so a polearm that was 141+ length with pierce stab substituted for that). 


You're beyond ridiculous here.

That being said I think I would give the trade off that no glances/weak damage rears a horse if every polearm can rear horses.  I think the hardest part about cavalry charges in strat now (how cav should be used, not running around trying to boost your KD away from the main action), is the light horses are going to be the only affordable ones for a long time.  By the time we even get to using armored horses then we can worry about whether or not "pocket pikes" (short spears and HBS in halfsword mode) are extremely detrimental to cavalry or not. 

"imisshotmail" ( ) you're thinking about this in NA1 where you try to engage people 1v1 and imagining someone bad getting reared by a HBS or short spear.  I'm talking about strat battles where it will be impossible to ever know if that person 3 deep has a HBS in half sword mode, ready to rear your horse or not. 

[Rhaelys]

Realism vs game balance aside I think this entire matter is silly considering we actually HAD pocket pikes (I did too!), and shortened spears and such could ACTUALLY rear horses back in the day. It was a warband patch which for whatever stupid reason made them unable to rear. This has already been stated multiple times in this thread, but I guess it's not a valid point or anything.

And cav is fine. Just go morningstar with an armored horse and you can easily get 150 points in a map. The funny thing about that, though, is that you can rack up 20 kills by sticking to the same vulture playstyle of "ride up into a packed melee on battle and bump-SMASH somebody for 95% of their health" that has defined cRPG cav for years now.

I think the bigger issue is this sense of cavalric superiority. Were cavalry superior in real life? Yes, yes they were... right up until things called tanks showed up. Is cavalry able to be properly modeled and balanced in a game where you can block a flamberge with a sickle (or even static block an attack)? No, probably not. So if you are concerned with your strat performance, please abandon the notion that you are somehow entitled to charge into a group of 30 other nerds playing internet swords and horsies and actually make it out alive.

It's worth noting that cav is the only playstyle that allows you to score kills by exclusively pressing one button (w), and sometimes pressing two others (x) (left click)

[CrazyCracka420]

No that's what I'm saying.  We're agreeing in some situations and you're misreading others.  I agree that this won't affect battle servers in crpg.   For strat I'm not saying I'm concerned with my strat performance.  If I was, then I never would have rode into the main line of the enemy infantry right before/as they crash into our friendly infantry line.  I'm doing that to help our infantry, it is suicidal and generally resulted in my horse getting reared (even when trying to be careful, because infantry got good at having pikes protect them).  Having someone use a bec de corbin to do well against ground troops and then be able to just stab and rear any horse that happens to try and bum rush the infantry line, will completely change the ability for cavalry to charge infantry lines in strategus.  This is now relegating cavalry to do in strat battles, what they already do in crpg public server battles, picking off stragglers and outliers, and not actually using cavalry for what they are supposed to be used for (disrupting enemy infantry formations).  But again, we're talking at least months from now before any armies have armored horses in strat, so I guess it's a moot point.

This won't change anything in crpg public battle servers, cavalry was already playing the backstabbing/light cavalry/low risk high reward tactics. 

[Gurnisson]

It's worth noting that cav is the only playstyle that allows you to score kills by exclusively pressing one button (w), and sometimes pressing two others (x) (left click)

You were a glaiver before, right? Only need s and left click for that...

[imisshotmail]

It honestly won't change anything in strat either dude, the only time you should charge into an enemy line is when they are all distracted in melee. Already in last strategus, half the melee were hoplites or long spears and you could STILL charge through an entire line of them when they were engaged in melee because people cannot block infront of them and look behind/to the side at the same time. I honestly don't see why a guy having a bec de corbin in a group is supposed to be any different than everyone being hoplites and long spears, if you didn't get reared when people had those why would you by an even shorter weapon?

I personally love that the change is back in because while I don't think it effects much of anything really, the fact that it is possible for VERY bad cavalry players to get punished by people with shorter weapons- is only a good thing in my opinion.

[Rhaelys]

You were a glaiver before, right? Only need s and left click for that...

Yep and will be soon again. But that requires holding s key and left clicking. Cav get kills by holding w. Or holding w and pressing x. Or holding w, bump-left click.

@Huseby

You're right in saying that we're many months out before we see any battles in which cavalry will play a prominent role. So let's wait until then to see if suicidal cav charges become completely unfeasible. My feeling is that even if they are unfeasible, cav will still shine at picking off stragglers and unprotected ranged.

[MURDERTRON]

Since ranged stun is gone, you should probably give them horse rearing too, just to balance things out.  And when we rediscover that 1h stab is too strong in strat, just nerf their stab in exchange for horse rearing.  And then, and only then, will we start talking about what's left that doesn't rear horses.

[Latvian]

when i was riding my plated charger and got reared by shortened spear agility troll i  immediately quit game and will try it again only today.

[dreadnok]

It really should be based on weight and reach,

[AntiBlitz]

Slightly off topic, but id rather not create another thread for it since it relates to cav anyways.

Buffs ability for players to move, players now move faster side to side, resulting in the inability of lance cav to strike agility characters.  Result: Lance cav nerfed

Allows nearly every polearm in the game as well as 2h the ability to rear horses, now with the benefit of increased character agility, lance cavalry have a tough time hitting even lone enemies in what should technically be a easy kill for the cav and pushes 1h cav to not even bother trying.  Result: cav nerfed

Buffs the stab of every weapon in the game, making light cavalry fear 1h weapons longer then 90 reach, now coupled with increased agility, every 1h player will jump out of the way and demolish your horse in a single click due to the speed bonus.  Result: yet again an indirect cav nerf

There is an obvious reason why nobody dares to ride light horses in battle servers, because a single hit will bring the horse to the brink of death or just outright kill it, why even bother wasting your time and money on them.  Now the game changes to who brings more armor, and hurts all the little guys.  Now using this same statement in strat, i cant but help think all the cav are going to be near useless for the initial burst of strat until people bring heavy horses, which shouldnt be the case.  Cav should be a force multiplier, not an extra utility to kill random stragglers.

Please for the love of fuck give back some of the lance angles.  Atleast drag them out beyond the like 90 degrees or whatever it is, make it like 150.  Atleast we will be able to kill archers and 1hers then instead of dealing with this, because really this is what fighting people from horseback has become if they are aware of you:

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[San]

Light cav are good when loomed. Cav not getting reared on glances sounds like a buff to me. Stab sweetspots were shortened, so it's far easier to force a glance on your horse. They also survive more projectiles nowadays. Agility characters are easy to hit if you predict their path and allow them only a few ways to reach you. Just gotta be a better cav player than the infantry is infantry for the most part, no free lunch.

[HoboJoe]

Cavalry can choose when to attack infantry, not the other way around. On a horse I go for the backstabs, simply because it's more effective and way less risky than attacking someone who's aware of me. Why take the risk when there's easier targets available, I've got the choice.

[Canary]

Two things to point out:

The first is that the change from any polearm ever rearing horses (in the old days) to only ones 141 or longer wasn't a cRPG specific change and therefore balance within the mod was never supposed to revolve around that change.

Second, one of the intentions behind putting halfswording into the mod was so that 2hand players would have a way to deal with horses similar to how polearm players could.


edit: People probably covered this already, but it is a challenge trying to get through threads like this in one go with the tangential bickering that goes on.

A passing thought: If someone using an item and playstyle that literally allows them to kill people by pressing W, what people consider ridiculous is that someone who is using a short weapon with good timing can stop the first person from moving with a solid attack?

[imisshotmail]

People use armoured horses because upkeep is irrelevant and they are straight up better than the lighter ones. This doesn't mean the unarmoured ones are bad, far from it. I really do not see why people think cavalry should be better than infantry in strategus just because they are cavalry? cavalry should just be another class, like melee and ranged so if you are an average player (you are) you should be aiming for 1:1 kdr as cav. Good players can do much better on rounceys than that, so don't complain.

[Kafein]

Stay classy Canary. Complaining about the bickering then going on saying that cav is nothing more than holding w.