Author Topic: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system  (Read 4342 times)

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Offline En_Dotter

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2014, 01:16:18 pm »
0
1- make MOTF appear in the beginning and be the only condition to win the map
2- reward infantry for being close to the flag, based on time ticks and flag "condition" (helping to raise it again from almost the ground grants more than camping a completely raised flag)
3- reward archers and cavalry for kills
4- once infantry gets killed within the flag area they keep on getting the same rewards, but at a slower rate
5- once infantry gets killed outside the flag area or once cavalry and archers get killed, they get points for all kills on the map at a slower rate
6- the time needed to win/lose determines the rewards, too. The faster you win or the slower you lose, the better.
7- implement a commander system basing on different flags to place with different orders. Being around that flag and doing that order grants rewards

There you have teamplay, rewards according to the gameplay of the class, and a system which doesn't punish you for going on the toilet.
1 - I dont know if this is good or bad so i wont comment any more on it
2 - Seems ok
3 - Not ok - While i get a lot of kills on EU 1 and it would suite me (cus of my 24/24 8pd 184 archery build) its not rly good. A lot of cav and archers support infantry by bumps/staggers and they dont get kills. Reward based on dmg delt for cav/ranged
4 - Seems ok
5 - Again not for kills but for the damage dealt
6 - Seems ok
7 - Seems ok
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Offline Spartacus

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2014, 03:19:47 pm »
0
First of all I would like to say that I actually played back then and i freakin loved it but:
1. Way too many ppl dont care for gold anymore, since almost everyone has already enough gold. So I think upkeep would have to increase.
2. I think a proximity based exp system would not encourage new players to stay longer. It is still the same grind.
3. We would need another system for siege since the system back then was a pain in the butt.
4. In siege is also way more fighting so more xp would float around.
to be continued but gtg
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Offline Joker86

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2014, 03:45:53 pm »
0
1 - I dont know if this is good or bad so i wont comment any more on it
2 - Seems ok
3 - Not ok - While i get a lot of kills on EU 1 and it would suite me (cus of my 24/24 8pd 184 archery build) its not rly good. A lot of cav and archers support infantry by bumps/staggers and they dont get kills. Reward based on dmg delt for cav/ranged
4 - Seems ok
5 - Again not for kills but for the damage dealt
6 - Seems ok
7 - Seems ok

Perfectly fine with that. It was a short first idea anyway, something like a rough sketch, nothing finalzed.

Edit: when I think about it correctly, I think my second last topic was also about giving an alternative to the multiplier system. The idea was that kills are rewarded, but only those which are scored by others, if YOU score a kill you don't get ANYTHING for it. And at the end of the round the percentage you receive of the rewards you collected during the round is determined by the amount of teammates who survived that round. The idea was to heavily support and ecourage teamplay, but the general reception wasn't really good, so I don't know...
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 03:52:56 pm by Joker86 »
Joker makes a very good point.
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Offline Casimir

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2014, 03:57:33 pm »
+1
The tick system isn't perfect, but i think the proximity system punishes too many classes in comparison.
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2014, 04:13:12 pm »
0
The tick system isn't perfect, but i think the proximity system punishes too many classes in comparison.

What about a hybrid of the two systems.  We already have "score" which has some components of the proximity system built into it.  What if XP/Gold was based more on score?  The score system would need to be tweaked some however.  Maybe score + multiplier for rounds your team wins is what gives you gold/xp? 
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Offline Thomek

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2014, 04:52:00 pm »
+2
1st of all I don't care if Ninjas get less XP. It's a choice we make, to suffer in frustration..

Anyway, I think to have BOTH system in place is better than changing to proximity, modifying the current one, or doing nothing.

Variation is key here. Some battles it's all about winning and freedom of tactics, others about grouping up and thus getting a simulated medieval experience.

@Joker:  Spawning the flag immediately is a bad idea, because proximity system is all about defending or attacking vantage points like a hilltop, a gateway, or a house. Sure it will be a bit unbalanced at times, but fun still. I remember 2 teams camping each their house in Nord Town i.ex.. :D

chadz, dig up the code and pls implement. :)
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Offline kinngrimm

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2014, 05:12:52 pm »
+2
If you want good teamplay, get your clan onto teamspeak, get someone to call the shots. But trying to solve it by artificially supporting only "certain" strategies, no thank you.
Best team with best suitable strategy depending on terrain and team composition should win.
If you pressure the players into a certain playstyle or strategy, you take away freedom of choice and also would not gratify those who actually out of their own choice would try team work. From the chaos priciples you can also say that teamwork is not always the winning factor, we have seen it often enough. On the other hand banner stacking of really good players, not because there is so much effort of teamwork and coordination pfff, does give advantages. Gank squads in EU1 often clash against each other and whoever gets lucky there will then gank further, teamwork i dont see there as major factor either, but who gets to gank whom first and therefor could overwhelm others afterwards and that in the shortest amount of time possible.

With more and more high level players and less and less lower level players, you also dont value so much anymore a few heros, only numbers count, if your nostalgic gets you thinking about these past moments where your team won, with a few tincans upfront and lots of others behind waiting if your own teams tincan would win or if the enemy tincans would at some point rush in and rofl stomp the remaining lightly armored and lower level and often not very experienced players ... these times wont come back as most of the peasents nowadays are fake peasents trying to gut you  :rolleyes: and being able to.

If you want more players in the community, advertise the game to reallife friends and family or to those you play other games with or wait for the next steam sale.

What proximity brings back to mind:
  • XP Barns
  • Camping in other places too
  • Mega rage, when you die (to ranged or cav?) early in the round
  • More camping
  • Rewards staying alive as long as possible - thus, more camping, more passive play, less actual fighting
While camping at times may still work, mostly due to flags it doesnt anymore or not for the whole map. That i see as a good thing. Flancing already has become nearly impossible due to ranged investations even in small groups while it may still have huge impact when successfull. Taking away the XP from flankers will make them obsolete. GG  :rolleyes:
What we have atm is often already what we had with the XP Barns, 2 big blobs clashing against each other. That you see people trying to get away from these mega blobs has different reasons though.
Who wants to be all the time in a clusterfuck of teamhits? Who doesnt want at times a duel situation, even if interrupted at a point? How is it that these blobs are mostly close to structures? Why are open terrain maps often so dreaded(hint: all HA/HX in one team or even most of ranged in one team, or all cav in one team)
For me not the XP system, but the team balancing system is what really needs some love!

...
On the other hand, I also personally hate the leecher promoting xp system....
autokick leechers
The time and amount of energy put into the XP system could easily solve that problem.
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Offline Dexxtaa

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2014, 08:12:43 pm »
+6
(click to show/hide)

A Hybrid System: Advantages and Disadvantages
Advantages and Disadvantages
To address most of the posts in here regarding some form of "hybrid" system, I do like that approach. Given that time and effort have been put into the tick system, I'm sure accommodations could be made to re-engineer one type of /xp gold system or the other for the purpose of taking the best of both worlds.

For example, the hybrid system would feature proximity based xp/gold gain, except with the addition of team multipliers for wins, and the reset of the multiplier for losses. Valor could continue to be based on damage output, since it really solves itself with a proximity system; the highest scoring individual(s) would HAVE to be in the thick of the fight in order to deal that kind of damage (instead of cherry picking on the outskirts of buttfuck nowhere).

Of course, adjustments should be made to accommodate the current gameplay culture of the community: the xp/gold "ring" would be made multiple times larger than it was (used to be small, aroudn 25 feet = 7.5ish meters from the point of death) to accommodate the "strategy" that is currently favored by the sneaky snails/ ranged.

Further, I believe this was what it was, but the xp/gold gain radius was relative to the killer, and not the death. So if you stood next to an archer who made a kill, the "suporting" xp/gold would be issued to the person next to the archer, too. This could also serve to make the game a little more central around the archers in the early game (where both teams are closing, but haven't made melee contact), who would feel left out should just the "strict" proximity system be used. Some kind of solution would have to be formulated for archer kills from a mile away (1.6km) while the victim was in a fight with teammates, since the battling teammate should be considered the 'supporting killer.'

Personally, I think that the xp/gain should be equal to every teammate within the xp/gold ring, otherwise that would encourage killwhoring, instead of teamwork.

Population ebbs and flows: Changes in server traffic
Finally, the most glaring problem I see with a proximity based system would be the population in and of itself. If the server numbers are low, then the resulting xp/gold gain would inherently be low. And during prime time, the gain would be significantly higher. This, in my opinion, would amplify the peaks and troughs of the in-game population, given the current active player base: down times will see almost empty servers, primetime would probably see a full server. HOWEVER, this also means that siege would see more love, since it's more fun to dick around in siege when the population is low.

And perhaps the swell of server population density around peak periods would encourage newer players to frequent this game, especially since prime time is really when the most casual players are free.
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Offline Sauce

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2014, 09:48:23 pm »
+3
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« Last Edit: April 11, 2014, 10:27:07 pm by Sauce »

Offline Lichen

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2014, 12:33:10 am »
+6
I don't play battle anymore because of the xp system. It is beyond frustrating to be at the mercy of seemingly random luck putting you on the winning or losing team. I play the same and it makes almost NO difference if you are on the weaker team. Then when you're on the winning team you can suck tremendously and still win round after round simply because you got put on the superior team. It is too frustrating and not fun at all when you feel you can't control how well you are rewarded an it's just up to luck of the draw.

Offline Elindor

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2014, 08:41:11 pm »
0
I thought that the devs were working on a system that was a hyrbid and that the installation of the score system was the first step in that...not sure what happened to that.

I'm guessing it will be in Melee of course, but it would be nice if they could implement some stuff now...because crpg is suffering hard from a couple things like Team Balancer, Game Modes, and EXP system.
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Offline Breidr

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2014, 09:20:46 pm »
+2
I don't know about the old system, but I've been thinking that something needs to change.  I can't really offer any suggestions, but I just wanted to pop in and give this thread some support in the hopes that someone looks into it.

cRPG is great, but it's really rough on new players.  I hit gen 2 not too long ago, and I'm finding little desire to retire again.  Character progression is pretty much a wall right now.  Yes, I can STF, but if I was going to do that, I might as well go play Native.  I hate the inventory system, but at least the system is more "balanced."  Right now I'm lucky if my multi stays above x2, and most of the time it just feels like I'm getting rolled.  This is compounded by the fact that off peak players seem extremely toxic and competitive, at least in my experience.

With all the problems with the EXP system and team balancing, it's really tough to stick it out in this mod.  It seems you either roll with a clan, or grind your eyeballs out, and for what?  The rewards don't even seem that great as time goes on.

Also, the current system seems to make siege pointless for leveling up, which is something I'd like to play, but the rewards are even less than battle.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 09:25:04 pm by Breidr »

Offline Xeen

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2014, 01:06:03 pm »
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It sounds like most of your issue revolves around the central tactic to winning in the battle game mode, which is locking as many people on the other team out of interaction as possible.  So uh, let's just fix battle. 

Offline kinngrimm

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2014, 02:04:20 pm »
0
Aslong i can flank and still get the same amount of XP, as i do my job mostly on the flanks to then backstab formations or campers, aslong that is still a viable play, i am ok with pretty much any kind of XP system.

If you but force by the system players into a certain playstyle, deny other playstyles or make them that much less gratifying to the point it would not make sense to play in that way. I would not have a problem to gain slightly less XP if i am  all on my own, trying to solo a flank, aslong i get additionally to killing ranged my old friends behind some tree or bush still some XP for it. Killing the ranged my old friends is already very gratifying for me personally, still with no XP how would i ever reach lvl 37  :lol:
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Offline Adamar

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2014, 03:17:46 pm »
0
People need to rush less, not more. One of the main points of multiplayer games is the teamplay.