Author Topic: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system  (Read 4289 times)

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Offline Dexxtaa

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About this proposition:
Currently, the “tick” system (preset amount of gold/xp per minute) is a successful method for the duel server as well as for conducting Strategus official battles. However, it does not encourage the growth of the cRPG player base due to the extremely unforgiving experience for brand new players.  The Golden Age “proximity” (gold/xp within a radius of you/teammate killing an opponent) gain system was a system that did NOT encourage strategy, but forced players in the public servers to conduct extremely efficient and close combat maneuvers and TACTICS.

The success of your team depended on which side could perform better as a large unit with an auxiliary force, instead of what the meta has currently dissolved into; “who can stay away from the battle while maintaining damage output.” In a nutshell, the proximity system was better suited to public servers, and not Strategus battles. While this proximity system discouraged sneaking around, or “kiting,” it did encourage every combatant engage in some form of close combat in order to maximize personal gain, and by proxy, team success.
(Can you believe ^that’s the tl;dr)


The Proximity system
(click to show/hide)


The Tick system: It’s original purpose and what it ended up becoming:
(click to show/hide)


Conclusions (for now):
(click to show/hide)


Updates:
A Hybrid of both Proximity and Tick systems as a suitable, lower effort model for xp/gold gain (the programming is already there, why not just take the best of both worlds?)
http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/an-advocation-for-reinstatement-of-crpgs-proximity-xp-gold-gain-system/msg944729/#msg944729


~
edit 2014/2/3 3.36pm est: grammar, formatting and spelling
edit 2014/1/29 12.48pm est: Added "updates" section to highlight posts of interest (a coalescing of multiple opinions and personal input)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 09:36:33 pm by Dexxtaa »
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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+11
tl dr version: whales are mammals

also first post (reading now)


My thoughts are:  I think it would lead to more "teamwork" since people would be encouraged to fight together or near their teammates.  Infantry would be the dominant class on the battlefield (for gaining XP/Gold).  If players were able to afford it, then they could go afford to go cavalry, but they wouldn't be getting as much XP or Gold due to the nature of proximity xp/gold. 

I would suggest that we somehow hybrid our current and the old XP/Gold system (maybe keep upkeep as well, I don't mind that).  Your XP/Gold gain is a product of your score as well as how many rounds in a row your team wins (maybe just the one round is taken into account).  The score system would need a little tweaking, but I think it would be the best of both worlds.

I also would like to see bigger groups of people fighting.  I'd like to see shield walls being useful again.  I'd like to see people finding a reason to fight near their teammates (because the incentive to use teamwork to win rounds, is obviously not strong enough to influence people).  Most of the rounds end up with people mindlessly "W-Keying" until they reach the enemy infantry, fighting and dying, alt+tab and wait for next round.  Very rarely do I see people working together with 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 other players.  The few times I'm riding around on my horse and see a hoplite or pikeman protecting an archer or xbow, I smile and think "good for you" and am actually proud to see someone using teamwork (even though it means I can't pick that archer/xbow off). 

I think the gold/xp system could be a good way to incentivize people to use teamwork (even if it's "artificial" teamwork due to proximity bonus). 
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 10:54:44 pm by CrazyCracka420 »
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Offline [ptx]

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-3
This is not 6 pages in Word, i am disappoint.

Offline SugarHoe

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tl dr version: whales are mammals

also first post (reading now)
no they're not, what are you gay
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Offline [ptx]

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-1
Whales are totally mammals and totally not homo.

Offline CrazyCracka420

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Offline Dexxtaa

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+4
Besides these two   three  two retards posting above me, I'd like to hear what people think about this, both for and against the proximity system.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 04:46:36 am by Dexxtaa »
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Offline [ptx]

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+9
What proximity brings back to mind:
  • XP Barns
  • Camping in other places too
  • Mega rage, when you die (to ranged or cav?) early in the round
  • More camping
  • Rewards staying alive as long as possible - thus, more camping, more passive play, less actual fighting
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 11:07:18 pm by [ptx] »

Offline CrazyCracka420

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0
What proximity brings back to mind:
  • XP Barns
  • Camping in other places too
  • Mega rage, when you die (to ranged or cav?) early in the round
  • More camping

True, the camping part I don't like.  We've seen this on some open plains maps in current XP system where both sides camp a hill and are content to wait for MOTF to pop up (since the team that gets A.D.D. and rushes the enemy hill usually loses). 

That could be countered with MOTF popping up earlier in the rounds on one of three spots of the map (that is randomly chosen between the 3)...which I think is a great idea by itself. 
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Offline no_rules_just_play

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+3
Well written and even though I never played with the proximity system, it's the xp barn videos that got me into crpg. With the xp barn being an example, I think their was quite alot od abusing of the system.

On the other hand, I also personally hate the leecher promoting xp system. It indeed feels like a grind and I believe there should be something like the proximity system reïmplemented (atleast for battle and dtv).
I think however the 3 different classes should get a different bonus and 'xp circle' around them:
*infantery should be pushed to stay together
*ranged should be pushed to stay together in some kind of formation shooting down.on the infantery from a hill etc..
*cavalry is a though one as they should both flank fighting infantery, ranged and flankers

Offline Dexxtaa

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2014, 11:18:34 pm »
0
Edited main post to clarify the state and persistence of xp/gold gain after character death.
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Offline LordBerenger

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2014, 11:27:23 pm »
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Only if upkeep gets removed as well.
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Offline Pestdoktor

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2014, 11:30:42 pm »
0
Without having read your post, w/o gold gain after death, upkeep would probably need to be changed accordingly. Let me paste my suggestion from the IRC:

How about tying repairs to hits landed/blocked or dmg soaked for armors, of course then you sould only get gold/exp if one of the respective players is in the weapon range of the other.

Offline Leesin

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2014, 11:51:49 pm »
+3
It was changed and never reverted for a reason, it just doesn't work in the big picture. Sure, it does have more than a few positives, but it also has just as much, if not more negatives. The current system, even with its flaws, is still better than radius based XP, because it rewards everyone on the team for winning, whatever they did. Whether that be staying with the main force, flanking, sniping from a distance, defending the rear or even archers from enemy cavalry etc, in the radius system all those roles are punished even if they had a massive hand in winning it for the team.

Thus you end up with two big grinding zergs, passive gameplay and a lot of camping.

Offline Chestaclese

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Re: An advocation for reinstatement of cRPG’s proximity XP/Gold gain system
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2014, 12:03:01 am »
+1
Whatever flaws, the tick system made playing as a peasant a more enjoyable experience. In the current system peasants, if there are any, are scum for padding my kd. Every level under 30 is a grind that only a player who knows how fun the game can be at 31 will take.
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