A way to give IF a buff

[San]

Unfortunately, HP can't really be changed that cleanly. I made a topic about this before the patch, and most felt that IF is fine. Never thought about something like adding armour points, but I disagree with adding too much armour everywhere (including armour looms). A 34 pierce/blunt attack at 90 armour is similar in damage to 34 cut damage on 65 armour.

IF is pretty decent when grouped together, but point for point, it's clearly less important than other skills. I'd argue that some skill points are worth 3-6 points of IF, since most attacks in the game would deal more than 15-20 health.

I like where this is going, though, using IF as a source of damage mitigation, maybe something that's not stats related.

[Teeth]

Ironflesh is the shit, dunno what is wrong with you guys.

21/21 build with 0 IF = 56 hp
21/21 build with 7 IF = 70 hp

14/56*100 = 25% extra survivability. 25% extra before you go down every single time you spawn. If 7 points are converted to get more powerstrike you get 8% extra damage, 25% more hp or 8% extra damage, I know what to pick.

[Tydeus]

The problem with IF, is that it's more rewarding the higher armor your have, aside from that I think it's fine as is.

[Grumbs]

Its 11 more health or 8% more damage + the other benefits of str. Doesn't it affect weapon stun, crushthrough, knockdown, gear access etc

Those 7 points can be used for better movement speed, shield skill, more WPF, riding, throwing, etc. Its not just a choice of more HP or more PS

In the scheme of things I think you can spend the SP on better things to survive or deal damage

[StonedSteel]

IF is for plate wearers and slow movers

other then that its pretty much useless

u got an agi build? dont take IF

slow moving bastard in plate? oh yeah, that IF is gonna help you out big time

[Macropus]

The problem with IF, is that it's more rewarding the higher armor your have, aside from that I think it's fine as is.

Well that's debatable IMO. Let me explain why.
Agi-oriented characters, due to having more mobility, are meant to get hit less. If we look at the utility of 5 IF points for a guy in heavy armor and something like 24-15 build, it's probably gonna make him able to survive another 2 or 3 hits. Same 5 IF for a 15-24 build will, however, only allow him to survive 1 additional hit.
BUT as agi guy gets hit less often, that one hit he survives will probably extend his life for the same amount of time as 2-3 extra survived hits for a plate guy.
Not like I tested it or ever played agi build with IF though, it's just what I suppose. Just wanted to point out that heavy armor guys getting more utility from IF is not that obvious, if true at all.


PS:

Just don't get hit.

The funny thing is - following your "advice" I would need IF even more. The less you get hit, the better IF becomes for you.

[Kafein]

Wait wait.. why does IF need a buff?

So much of this.


Surviving 5 hits of any serious weapon should be the absolute maximum. Right now you can easily survive more than 10 with a good build.

[Silfarion]

^Poll added just for you cutie ;)

jokes on you i can't vote with so little reknown and posts

[Huscarlton_Banks]

Ironflesh is the shit, dunno what is wrong with you guys.

21/21 build with 0 IF = 56 hp
21/21 build with 7 IF = 70 hp

14/56*100 = 25% extra survivability. 25% extra before you go down every single time you spawn. If 7 points are converted to get more powerstrike you get 8% extra damage, 25% more hp or 8% extra damage, I know what to pick.

If you convert 7 points to get more powerstrike, you end up with 59 hp vs 70 hp though.

The main issue with IF is that there are damage ranges where it adds zero survivability, mainly in the damage range that you can expect for high-ish PS, Cav hits, Heavy Crossbow+ body shots, Bow headshots, etc, but it's usually more of a problem for people who fall within the range of 40-55 armor.

Damage AFTER armor	Hits with 59 hp	Hits with 70 hp
12-13	5	6
14	5	5
15	4	5
16-19	4	4
20-23	3	4
24-29	3	3
30-34	2	3
35-58	2	2
59-69	1	2
70+	1	1

[owens]

^This exactly


Why would you put 7 points in IF when you could get 3 more str (+3 hp) 1PS and the ability to fill the build in when you reach higher levels.


21/21 vs 21/21 with 7IF is more than 2 levels worth of points!!!!!!



If you noticed the highest benefit per level of my IF proposal is available at low str

[Butan]

The main issue with IF is that there are damage ranges where it adds zero survivability, mainly in the damage range that you can expect for high-ish PS, Cav hits, Heavy Crossbow+ body shots, Bow headshots, etc, but it's usually more of a problem for people who fall within the range of 40-55 armor.

Thanks for confirming my thoughts 

If you're wearing only medium armor, even with crazy amount of IF, it will only give you 0-2 extra hit before dying, thats just awful efficiency. For the other "normal" people out there, even with 7 IF you will barely see the difference, sometimes you will have a black bar instead of dying on the spot but thats it.

IF need a re-balance so that it grows from "almost always useless" to "kinda nice in some situations". Like every other skills.

Now maybe those that think IF is very good WHATEVER YOU'RE WEARING will maybe think twice.
The extra survivability only applies when you wear tons of expensive armor, else its just a waste of points that will make you survive one lucky hit and thats all.

Some would argue that surviving one extra hit once in a while is already quite good. But its not cost-effective at all in most cases (7 skill points to have 25% of chance in an average encounter to survive one hit? wow) and should scale more.


Make it so that it is useful from the first skill point invested, with any kind of armor set.

[Kafein]

From the point of view of someone that usually takes 2 1h hits or 1 2h hit to die, getting IF to survive 2 more hits sounds like a huge improvement, and in fact it's more than 2 unless you wear very little armor.

You tanks have survivability already equal to more than five of my lives. Each time you die, I would have died five times or more if I did the same errors as you.


The thing is, people that survive many hits already don't seem to appreciate the huge value of surviving one more hit, because they already have so many anyway.

If you convert 7 points to get more powerstrike, you end up with 59 hp vs 70 hp though.

The main issue with IF is that there are damage ranges where it adds zero survivability, mainly in the damage range that you can expect for high-ish PS, Cav hits, Heavy Crossbow+ body shots, Bow headshots, etc, but it's usually more of a problem for people who fall within the range of 40-55 armor.

Damage AFTER armor	Hits with 59 hp	Hits with 70 hp
12-13	5	6
14	5	5
15	4	5
16-19	4	4
20-23	3	4
24-29	3	3
30-34	2	3
35-58	2	2
59-69	1	2
70+	1	1

Net damage is very often lower than 12 if you wear heavy or even medium armor.

[Rebelyell]

maybe we should go the MW way

no free HP from STR
but more HP from IF

balance it around 6 if and we are at home

If you want to spare some skill it will be always IF, so maybe it is time to change it a bit

[Kafein]

maybe we should go the MW way

no free HP from STR
but more HP from IF

balance it around 6 if and we are at home

If you want to spare some skill it will be always IF, so maybe it is time to change it a bit

That would maybe help on average, but not change anything when it comes to braindead ivani4 clones.

[owens]

^I have had a thought



What if this only effects base stats of armour!!!! (+3 armour gets the same boost as +0 armour)



reduces maximum armour by 10! lowering maximum "armour" a fair bit and it buffs plate users over loomed kuyak users!