Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Butan]

You missed the point. In a democratic country, it should never have to come to rioting of such scale, the government should resign to prevent that.

I also sincerely hope you meant to use "unless" rather than that "if" there.

It may be because I'm french but I dont see the difference between if and unless  my point was, out of the boundaries of the law, a government can be changed only through force (force of arms, force of will, even peaceful actions can be a force for change). To say a protest should always cause resigning from office if one is to uphold a democratic code of conduct, is for me one of the biggest retardation of today political system.
Basically, with enough support from media and population, and more often than not exterior support, you can replace whole government. The elections are already quite easy to exploit to manipulate the masses, but add this and that and you just put big holes in your laws that bad people will exploit. Ukraine isnt the first to fall to this and others have and will in the future, and more often than not what followed was utter bullshit and complete corruption of the initial "legitimate" movement.

[[ptx]]

That is completely beside the point.

A protest isnt a riot, and a riot isnt a revolt. Where we draw the line is totally up to interpretation : trust the demo to deem themselves peaceful protesters whatever happens, while the government will treat them as dangerous rebels day 1.
But a siege with violence and destruction where the people numbers by the tens of thousands and took control of parts/totality of one or more cities, is a revolt to me.
You can bet your ass that whether you're in Paris or in London or wherever, the government will defend itself tooth and nail.
Live ammo taboo works only until a point, thinking western countries are never going to use force in the same context is naive at best, at worst propagandist.

[Butan]

If I read well, your point was on "unless" and "if", and that when a riot happens to a big scale the government should resign, I gave my view on both so what more?
You quote myself like I dont know what I'm saying  maybe you forgot to add a text in your empty message?
If not then ignore this one, because I see no basis on which to debate.

[BIA_ivani4]

In Kiev there is a capture of the Verkhovna Rada. It is now!!!
Russian TV news show it live... Пиздец похоже, понеслось.

[serr]

It is not capture yet, probably they will stop with some promises given, but still it is very, very bad

В кои-то веки я с тобой полностью согласен

[Butan]

You mean capture as in, physical assault?  Link please

[serr]

Right now there are protests right near entrance, peaceful at the moment, their main demand is resignment of minister of internal affairs, but it is quite possible they they will start assault.

[serr]

Well, things calmed down a bit, there will be no assault tonight, but if minister of internal affairs won't be resigned tomorrow - there will be.

Very difficult situation in which I don't see good solution.

[BIA_ivani4]

В кои-то веки я с тобой полностью согласен

Серр, я и не просил тебя со мной соглашаться. Меня интересует Украина. А не твоё мнение о моих высказываниях. Ты бы лучше рассказал что у тебя в Запорожье на отвалах происходит. Ты же аж мочишься когда беспредел в твоём городе показывают. А тут вдруг молчишь. Боишься кого? Ждёшь кто победит? Чемодан-вокзал- Германия, к Молли в услужение. Тебе не нужна Украина. Вот как-то так 

[[ptx]]

If I read well, your point was on "unless" and "if", and that when a riot happens to a big scale the government should resign, I gave my view on both so what more?
You quote myself like I dont know what I'm saying  maybe you forgot to add a text in your empty message?
If not then ignore this one, because I see no basis on which to debate.

Well, apparently you don't know what you're saying.

Let me rephrase what you said: if a situation, like Maidan, was to happen in any other country, the same things would happen, with government crackdowns and whatnot. I said it wouldn't, giving one example. I never said it's "a good argument for democratic process" or what have you. Then you went into offtopic about other things. Does your memory not extend past the last 2 posts?

About "if" and "unless", using "if" there implies, that 20k is the majority of population of LV

[serr]

(click to show/hide)

Серр, я и не просил тебя со мной соглашаться. Меня интересует Украина. А не твоё мнение о моих высказываниях. Ты бы лучше рассказал что у тебя в Запорожье на отвалах происходит. Ты же аж мочишься когда беспредел в твоём городе показывают. А тут вдруг молчишь. Боишься кого? Ждёшь кто победит? Чемодан-вокзал- Германия, к Молли в услужение. Тебе не нужна Украина. Вот как-то так 

Это форум и он создан для общения, когда ты что-то пишешь - следует ожидать что люди это будут комментировать, соглашаться, доказывать обратное, иначе все это не имеет никакого смысла.
По поводу беспредела на отвалах - сказать что он начался после победы майдана было бы неправильно, он там не заканчивался с 90-х. В 2010 году они полностью перешли под контроль группировки, лояльной предыдущей власти, сейчас, разумеется, идет передел. Кто их сейчас займет - правый сектор, который ничего хорошего из себя не представляет, или обычные бандиты под маской "бойцов революции" я не знаю, да и вобщем-то с учетом событий в Киеве, не так уж и важно. Все будет решаться там.

[djavo]

I would really hate that Dave goes into war against Ivanich. Come on guys there must be solution. Maybe muricans can help? I heard they bring freedom all over the world.

[Butan]

Well, apparently you don't know what you're saying.

Let me rephrase what you said: if a situation, like Maidan, was to happen in any other country, the same things would happen, with government crackdowns and whatnot. I said it wouldn't, giving one example. I never said it's "a good argument for democratic process" or what have you. Then you went into offtopic about other things. Does your memory not extend past the last 2 posts?

About "if" and "unless", using "if" there implies, that 20k is the majority of population of LV

Alright, I didnt understand that.

Why riot police was deployed in Maidan, but nothing in Latvia? Difficult to answer without more details and if those details are nothing compared to what was Maidan I dont understand the comparison.. But I think its a bit off-topic.

[serr]

That's what was yesterday at the doorstep of parliament

[Molly]

The danger I see is that people won't stop rioting. Whenever some guy makes an unpopular but maybe needed decision, people will grab their wooden sticks and try to storm the building.