Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Butan]

You are funny. Manipulating gas prices based on political gains and cripling an already wounded "friendly" slav nation is truly "very small evil". At least in the eyes of brainwashed

Oh please you, US/EU can apply unilateral economical sanctions to Russia, and Russia cant do the same?

They are both using money as a weapon, instead of armies, and both wants the other to say "pls stap I yield, u can has wat u want", and until then the citizens of targeted countries are going to have harder life because of price/supply problems. The only difference is in the principal "ammunition" used: Russian has gas (restricting exportation* to politically compatible customers), EU/US has market control (freezing assets and restricting exchanges of Russian citizens and enterprises).

Why should I feel sadder about US/EU/Ukrainian economy going in the shit than the Russian economy exactly? YOU are brainwashed, if your answer is that in a case its justified, in the other its not.

[Lt_Anders]

Oh please you, US/EU can apply unilateral economical sanctions to Russia, and Russia cant do the same?

They are both using money as a weapon, instead of armies, and both wants the other to say "pls stap I yield, u can has wat u want", and until then the citizens of targeted countries are going to have harder life because of price/supply problems. The only difference is in the principal "ammunition" used: Russian has gas (restricting importation to politically compatible customers), EU/US has market control (freezing assets and restricting exchanges of Russian citizens and enterprises).

Why should I feel sadder about US/EU/Ukrainian economy going in the shit than the Russian economy exactly? YOU are brainwashed, if your answer is that in a case its justified, in the other its not.

Won't effect US economy. We have more resources than Russia does land. Fuck, we could out supply Russia's Natural gas if we had the logistics to.(most the world to. It helps being the largest Coal and Natural Gas country in the world)

We are doing a much better job fucking our own economy up than sanctions are.

[Swaggart]

Won't effect US economy. We have more resources than Russia does land. Fuck, we could out supply Russia's Natural gas if we had the logistics to.(most the world to. It helps being the largest Coal and Natural Gas country in the world)

We are doing a much better job fucking our own economy up than sanctions are.

Coal and fracked natural gas? Have fun being like Beijing but also with the added bonus of your drinking water having this annoying habit of catching fire and giving you cancer.

[Butan]

We are doing a much better job fucking our own economy up than sanctions are.

Love the factual irony of muricans on their own country sometimes

Yea, I didnt mean that Russia/US/EU as a whole are going to crumble just for some economical sanctions (still a low probability, especially if the sanctions grows in scale). But, either locally (country per country, region per region) or globally (the aforementioned blocks) there gonna be economical victims in the form of poorer people and less afordable modern day items/services, if the economical sanctions manages to hit something important.

[BIA_ivani4]

Mr.Kuujis On demand of the EU, Ukraine increases gas prices for households and for enterprises. Previously, Ukraine refused the help of Russia (15 000 000 000 dollars). 2 000 000 000 dollars Ukraine has already received. However, refused to comply with the terms of the contract for discounted gas from Russia. And since April 1, the Russian natural gas will cost almost as much as for the EU, not much less. You think all the troubles in the world and in Ukraine is Russia's fault? But Russia is not the EU.  The EU and the USA supplied Ukraine conditions. Ukraine makes the choice itself...

[Lt_Anders]

Coal and fracked natural gas? Have fun being like Beijing but also with the added bonus of your drinking water having this annoying habit of catching fire and giving you cancer.

Nope. We have more regular natural gas than anyone else. If we count Fracked(which IS getting better at extracting w/ less pollution) it goes up more.

Love the factual irony of muricans on their own country sometimes

Hey, we can't help it. When you can get 40+ year politicians, of course you're going to get a country that messes itself up.

[Kafein]

Love the factual irony of muricans on their own country sometimes

Yea, I didnt mean that Russia/US/EU as a whole are going to crumble just for some economical sanctions (still a low probability, especially if the sanctions grows in scale). But, either locally (country per country, region per region) or globally (the aforementioned blocks) there gonna be economical victims in the form of poorer people and less afordable modern day items/services, if the economical sanctions manages to hit something important.

I don't see that happening if the West's sanctions stay targeted at Putin's circle of advisors and oligarchs. I think it's a very good thing and may even prove more effective than penalizing the Russian people for the actions of the autocrat. I doubt the state of the economy is more important than the studies of one's children or real estate investments abroad for the decision makers in Kremlin.

[Butan]

And those few people have done what exactly? Guilty of being born in Russia?

If even only one of them have done nothing, I can not see how you can defend said economical sanctions, however "small" the targeting size is.
Its just cynical "take them by the balls" political move.

[Lt_Anders]

And those few people have done what exactly? Guilty of being born in Russia?

Not bothering to think outside what they are fed. Course, it's human nature to be sheeple due to the fact that it's "safe" for "me." Why try and be different when it's easier to just not draw attention?

That's why Civil unrest at the Maidan scale is HARD to achieve if you don't PUSH people to do it. Most will just want to go to work, do their job, go home and repeat every day.

[serr]

On demand of the EU, Ukraine increases gas prices for households and for enterprises.

That's right, had to be done years ago. Actually, gas for households right now is much cheaper than it is in Russia, though we buy it from Russia. Strange, isn't it.

Previously, Ukraine refused the help of Russia (15 000 000 000 dollars).

You can call it this way, afaik it was Russia who rufused to give more money after change of government, which is completely uderstandable.

And since April 1, the Russian natural gas will cost almost as much as for the EU, not much less.

In fact it will cost more than for any EU country. That is the reason why we will buy some gas from EU.

You think all the troubles in the world and in Ukraine is Russia's fault? But Russia is not the EU.  The EU and the USA supplied Ukraine conditions. Ukraine makes the choice itself...

Most troubles in Ukraine is Ukraine's fault. Russia had some part in it, but most of the work we did by ourselves.

[Kuujis]

Oh please you, US/EU can apply unilateral economical sanctions to Russia, and Russia cant do the same?

They are both using money as a weapon, instead of armies, and both wants the other to say "pls stap I yield, u can has wat u want", and until then the citizens of targeted countries are going to have harder life because of price/supply problems. The only difference is in the principal "ammunition" used: Russian has gas (restricting importation to politically compatible customers), EU/US has market control (freezing assets and restricting exchanges of Russian citizens and enterprises).

Why should I feel sadder about US/EU/Ukrainian economy going in the shit than the Russian economy exactly? YOU are brainwashed, if your answer is that in a case its justified, in the other its not.

Lets just say, that EU (and most definitely - all civilized world) has quite some rules agains monopolies enforcing what ever price it wants on the dependent party. You do not feel problems and do not feel the need to be paranoid, because russia is not going to do this to le frenchies, but trust me - when it comes to former soviet block countries - its completely understandable to pay highest prices for gas in EU, even though we are closest to the source. I DO NOT GIVE A FUCK what russia wants my country to do. I want to choose on my own. I saw too much of the KGB guys choosing for other.  And this is why I have no problems paying highest (well, now UKR leads ) prices to actually have a chance to CHOOSE.

Did I say you should care? No. Was I ironic, about friendly nation treating other friendly nation as an enemy? Yes. Did you appreciate the jest? No

Mr.Kuujis On demand of the EU, Ukraine increases gas prices for households and for enterprises. Previously, Ukraine refused the help of Russia (15 000 000 000 dollars). 2 000 000 000 dollars Ukraine has already received. However, refused to comply with the terms of the contract for discounted gas from Russia. And since April 1, the Russian natural gas will cost almost as much as for the EU, not much less. You think all the troubles in the world and in Ukraine is Russia's fault? But Russia is not the EU.  The EU and the USA supplied Ukraine conditions. Ukraine makes the choice itself...

Yes, because that subsidy thing was unsustainable and this change was long overdue... Except - there were TWO sources of increase: removal of subsidies and the one you comfortably forgot - 2x increase in what russia sells to Ukraine. Given normal scenario - former friendly nation would agree to some transitional plan, instead of increasing source gas prices 2x just because. You know... just to keep everyone together... like... friendly kind together?  And now you have fucked 1 of 3 (?) friendlies in the ass because... why exactly?

[Kafein]

And those few people have done what exactly? Guilty of being born in Russia?

If even only one of them have done nothing, I can not see how you can defend said economical sanctions, however "small" the targeting size is.
Its just cynical "take them by the balls" political move.

I don't think you understand who we are talking about here.

And tell me, how is it any less cynical to make life harder for all Russians, when you can just target those that are in power ? I mean, seriously ?

[Butan]

I don't think you understand who we are talking about here.

I dont know, never seen a list of the people targeted, but I'm pretty sure they killed noone recently. We are talking big money, big power, not really the guys who were on the field and ate ukrainian babies, so they are just political targets, thats where the cynism comes since they did no alleged crimes.

Never said there was a "cynical" scale of 1 to 10 and targeting all russian would be better, mind you. As much as you never said that they targeted a few people only because they have empathy with the russian people and want to protect them (I hope you dont think that  ).

[Kuujis]

I dont know, never seen a list of the people targeted, but I'm pretty sure they killed noone recently. We are talking big money, big power, not really the guys who were on the field and ate ukrainian babies, so they are just political targets, thats where the cynism comes since they did no alleged crimes.

Never said there was a "cynical" scale of 1 to 10 and targeting all russian would be better, mind you. As much as you never said that they targeted a few people only because they have empathy with the russian people and want to protect them (I hope you dont think that  ).

You presume, that annexation of Crymea is OK and russia acted within her international agreements and in accordance with international law. Which it did not. And that is why there are some sanctions agains ruling elite imposed by the immoral rotten west. Where do you see a problem with that?

[BIA_ivani4]

Kuujis
Gas is a commodity. As oil, coffee (as sprats  ). The buyer (such as Slovakia or Greece) purchases the goods is stable, the buyer shall pay at the time, the buyer is predictable. Such a partner ensures the success of your business. It makes sense to invest, to go on some financial costs (modernization of production, increasing of capacities, changing modes of production). The seller will make a reserve for the buyer, seller will create pleasant conditions for a permanent client. The seller will sell cheaper, that would not losing customers.
However, if the buyer breaches the terms of payment or says: «Seller bad. We will not buy from this seller. We are building a new production. We will not pay. We have other vendors...». How to have done business with this client? Not to sell him? We should sell, for want of money. The production should be tailored to the needs of this client as well. But the risks, financial and other, should be compensated by the price of goods. Who should pay for such financial risks? All? No, this is bad buyer.
Ukraine wants to buy from Slovakia. Excellent! Russia (for political purposes) will increase the price for Slovakia? No. Slovakia is a reliable business partner. Payment is always on time. Gas deliveries to Ukraine, finally, will not free. Slovakia, probably, even will receive a discount. 


Paradoxically, benefits and bonuses will receive not only Russia, Slovakia and Ukraine. EU politicians say, «Look, we won evil Russia! Russia not to create obstacles to reverse supply of gas to Ukraine! Russia was scared and reduced the price for Slovakia! The EU is power!»
Obama will also say: «the Efforts of America, the efforts of all progressive mankind, the efforts of the civilized world brought victory! Russia punished! We have proved Russia that in our world there is no place for abuse of power!»