Meanwhile in Ukraine

[FleetFox]

From what I gather, there is a big concern that many of the Ukrainian (Russian speaking) military personal may defect to Russia, one of their navy ships has already done so. This a really messy situation, I'm worried for the Tatars in Crimea...

[Molly]

Fear not, Ukraine. I am sure Germany is willing to help with any humanitarian aid we can come up with!

...cuz that is our way:

Sending in Police, engineers and people who know how to dig wells!

(Maybe some riflemen to protect the well diggers... only those tho!)

[Kuujis]

This theme becomes boring. You go to the insults. This is not a debate. Now You shall deny me speak. Boycott my deals on the market. Arrest my gold. When a lot of ebaotech is very bad. You probably, like a boxer Klitschko, hit a stone in the head in Kiev? 
You want to loyal opinions? However, what I write, do not speak Russian media. They say in the media in the United States, England, the EU.
By the way, is four hours that goes mobilization in Ukraine. I wonder weapons give all? In all cities? 
In the borders of the United States discovered Navy of the Russian Federation! One small, but very scary ship .

You want respect? Maybe start acting to deserve it? Maybe even as a nation, no only those 200 Russians, who gathered in Moscow to protest this fucked up "save our nationals! they will be killed by facists!" war that pUTIN has started? (btw - those are most likely the only russians who actually suffered to date due to all this conflict). I have no respect to nation who is acting the way rUSSIA is, but I know a LOT of russians who I do respect, because they recognize the bullshit your government-owned-media is feeding you. You on the other hand - do not. You name "occupation" and "invasion" as "restoring order" and congradulate that. Last time Lithuania "asked" (nevermind the 100x army on the doorstep and bought politicians internally, no such thing was there ofc, right?) USSR to help enact order and defend us - one third of the brightest lituanians suddenly decided that living in Siberia winter is an awesome one-way vacations. And that is why I say and I will repeat - FUCK YOU and FUCK YOUR BRAINWASHED HEAD Go back to the bottle of vodka you started 5 mins ago, it will not drink itself.

You by the way must be in the minority, because when it comes to debate - Russia suddenly decided "fuck that, we will invade, capture the region, then they can do all kinds of censored debates they want". So - why should I even attempt to debate with douche-bags who think current invasions and occupation is ok, merely "to restore order"?

And as to argumens - tell me the interpretation of chechnya you have in your head. Or maybe Georgia?

[Thomek]

Kuujis, the Russians are not retarded.. It's just you don't understand their point of view.

For them, the west wants access to Russias land and resources. (Which is probably true)For them, the west is the strong world power that bullies other nations into line, which is also somewhat true..  For them, Kiev was not a revolution of the people, but a western operation. Even the russians in Crimea share this viewpoint. EU is for them just an extension of Germany.. (Which still doesn't have a great rep east of your borders Molly )

I read about the differences between east and west Ukraine. A student in the west said: Eastern Ukrainians don't know what the west IS.

And I think here lies the key. They simply don't know that it is possible to live in a relatively humane society with rights, freedom, and law and order that works. Where politicians don't steal billions and billions.  Where you have to be scared and lie and steal to get ahead in society.

Russians prefer to have a rotten system with thieves on top, rather than a system they don't know.  Just, let's not be retarded here.. I for one think people like Ivani4 expressing their opinion is way more interesting than 100 mass media articles, even though I strongly disagree.

On the long term, I think Putin does this so the Russians will not know a better system, and keep himself in place.

[Osiris]

You want respect? Maybe start acting to deserve it? Maybe even as a nation, no only those 200 Russians, who gathered in Moscow to protest this fucked up "save our nationals! they will be killed by facists!" war that pUTIN has started? (btw - those are most likely the only russians who actually suffered to date due to all this conflict). I have no respect to nation who is acting the way rUSSIA is, but I know a LOT of russians who I do respect, because they recognize the bullshit your government-owned-media is feeding you. You on the other hand - do not. You name "occupation" and "invasion" as "restoring order" and congradulate that. Last time Lithuania "asked" (nevermind the 100x army on the doorstep and bought politicians internally, no such thing was there ofc, right?) USSR to help enact order and defend us - one third of the brightest lituanians suddenly decided that living in Siberia winter is an awesome one-way vacations. And that is why I say and I will repeat - FUCK YOU and FUCK YOUR BRAINWASHED HEAD Go back to the bottle of vodka you started 5 mins ago, it will not drink itself.

You by the way must be in the minority, because when it comes to debate - Russia suddenly decided "fuck that, we will invade, capture the region, then they can do all kinds of censored debates they want". So - why should I even attempt to debate with douche-bags who think current invasions and occupation is ok, merely "to restore order"?

Imagine being Russian and seeing the USA etc invade Afganistan then Iraq then drone bomb pakistan. Then watch as they scream shout and stomp their feet because you invade the crimea. Hypocrisy much?
And as to argumens - tell me the interpretation of chechnya you have in your head. Or maybe Georgia?

Why should Russia want your respect? The USA gets away with doing whatever they want all over the world be it invading sovereign countries or using drones to bomb them, you really think Russia is doing any worse? Respect means nothing when all sides do the same thing. Only reason the west is so worked up is that its Ukraine and Russia not someplace in the middle east and the USA

[DaveUKR]

At the beginning I was supporting Ukranians, but now since they`re asking help from islamofascist terrorists, I hope Putin nukes those suckers back to the stone age.

http://silveristhenew.com/2014/03/01/ukrainian-nationalists-call-for-help-from-terrorists-to-fight-russia/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dokka_Umarov

Yeah, like the organization that never could pass the 3% barrier on elections to Parliament represents the Ukrainian people now.

Some of my friends officers got called already to get mobilized today and tomorrow (including my brother). I'm obligated to show myself there in a week or sooner if needed (waiting for a call).

[Panos_]

It doesnt matter, because it looks like that they`re in command of Ukraine now.


Anyway, take care Dave.

[Falka]

I'm obligated to show myself there in a week or sooner if needed (waiting for a call).

Poor russians, Dave will headshot all of them with his +3 sniper xbow

[Jacko]

There is no doubt this is an invasion by Russia to grab strategic territory from a weakened Ukraine. Russia does not like the idea of 'losing' strategic assets to a west friendly government, and have never liked the idea of Ukraine approaching the west and Europe in any way. A very powerful statement and sets precedent for further actions to protect Russian interests (see US foreign policy..).

Best way to get information is to follow it on twitter: https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Ukraine&src=tyah

Tons of misinformation and propaganda from either side, but at least you get to see everything.

EDIT: bad writing, cleaned it up.

[Molly]

Tschechs ex-foreign minister said in an interview "When Hitler started grabbing foreign territory, he always said it's just to protect German citizens living in that territory."

He's actually right about that :O

[Christo]

Yeah, also pretty sure russia needs more lebensraum

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


lel

[Molly]

It's kinda weird... when you look at the map, Russia already has a huge coast along the Black Sea.

I don't really see the strategic necessity to have a base on Crimea really. I mean the technology advanced, intelligence comes from space, no need for a "forward" base... I don't see the point for that argument.

[Segd]

Tschechs ex-foreign minister said in an interview "When Hitler started grabbing foreign territory, he always said it's just to protect German citizens living in that territory."

He's actually right about that :O

Yep, it's pretty fun to troll using n a z i comparision in the country with strongest WW2 cult. It is even stronger than our second religion - Orthodox Christianity. Russians even invented they own war - Great Patriotic War (no English wiki exists since there was no such war :p ) Like there was only one true war between Soviets & chocolate chip cookiees while others were just jerking around.

[Butan]

I dont see how your EU "brainwashed" version is superior Kujiis, at least Ivanich isnt hostile and we can debate. The truth lies in the middle.

I think this topic deserve better than insults, we have managed to speak correctly to each other (for the most part) for 50 pages, lets not stop it here, just because the heat is increasing in Ukraine doesnt mean we have to increase it on the internet...



I think like Osiris on "who's the most honest country": everyone is using his power quite liberally and use propaganda to look like the best.
Might makes right even today, the only thing that changed from the middle age is the size of the alliances which are now on a planetary scale, and the danger of enabling them is interfering with human survival instinct.

[Corwin]

NATO entering a conflict with Russia on the other side does not mean that a full scale thermonuclear war is gonna erupt. Russia is pulling some real 19th century territory grab shit here which the world hasn't seen for quite a while, especially in a quasi-developed part of the world. This is a serious breach of any international law and there will be attempts at stopping it. Such attempts are costly for every party, including Russia. If they are met with resistance, whether it is diplomatic, economic or military, the costs of gaining territory increase immensely for Russia. NATO isn't going to start World War 3 for Crimea, but neither is Russia obviously. If NATO assists Ukraine in defending its borders Russia could be brought to back down without any further escalation. Though I agree probably nobody is willing to bear the costs for military resistance and NATO will not do anything.

Of course escalation is a risk, but letting territory grabbing go unpunished is very undesirable too. Which is of course also why Ukraine is preparing for war, countries don't just roll over and allow invasions, no matter how big the power difference is. Dunno where you are all from but I know my tiny country grabbed their World War 1 rifles to sit in their outdated wooden bunkers to defend against the Germans in 1940. Ukraine has to go to war.

Monteblack in spanish. And you are dreaming.