Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Kuujis]

There were, but not the most nation

And in baltics it was. True story.  Heard it on RT. Right after story of zombie plane. Or did you read that in the recently "corrected" history books?

Fuck you?

Get your shit together, then go about pointing fingers. Germany faced their naztee past and got over it, got stronger after overcoming it. russia? russia cant face its shit, so it calls everyone else shit and when you touch anything - it has mostly turned to shit.

You want to know why you are still relevant? Because your great ancestors didn't have enough time to sell the rest of Siberia to US, like they did with Alaska. Unfortunately for you neighbors - there is gas in Siberia, which is needed by others. Thats it. There is nothing else russia can offer now for the rest of the world, except its alternate "russian world" reality full of bullshit. Please, keep it for yourself.

[Tibe]

During ww2 there was such thing as Holocaust. In countries such as Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and others were a lot of сollaborators, because of that 80% of jews were killed. People in this countries betrayed Jews not to be killed instead.

now guess ... who was who ^^

Yea, thats what your propagandahistory claims. None of it is actually true. The na zis were dicks to jews, too everyone else they were relatively decent. Red army was dicks to everybody. Burned, looted and raped everything. This is all documented and true.  And 80%? Where the fuck did you read that horseshit? No offence Nicko, but your russian books have been more than proven to be wrong a lot, so its kinda impossible to believe them. In some cases your history sticks sw astikas on groups of people who never were na zis, but just common people, who the USSR just didnt like and murdered. Russian historians only get payed in russia, everywhere else their "knowledge" is garbage.

[Xant]

Yeah, Russian history is 100% unreliable. For decades and decades, they claimed that Finland started the Winter War with random artillery shelling of Russia. Russian history is full of "facts" like that.

[DonNicko]

Yea, thats what your propagandahistory claims. None of it is actually true. The na zis were dicks to jews, too everyone else they were relatively decent. Red army was dicks to everybody. Burned, looted and raped everything. This is all documented and true.  And 80%? Where the fuck did you read that horseshit? No offence Nicko, but your russian books have been more than proven to be wrong a lot, so its kinda impossible to believe them. In some cases your history sticks sw astikas on groups of people who never were na zis, but just common people, who the USSR just didnt like and murdered. Russian historians only get payed in russia, everywhere else their "knowledge" is garbage.

There is nothing in official books, this is not what is teaching in the schools, before ukranian crysis, I thought that we are in good relationship with baltic countries and others, then I learnt that they hate us. I learnt from the school that Stalin was bad as H itler, because he killed a lot of people and send a lot to the Syberia. And about collaborants in baltic countries I heard first from jewish general who lives in Israel. He said that baltic countries helped to kill jews and now try to write a history without this facts.

[Tibe]

Not even books man. The understanding about WW2 to most of us has come from survivors. Odd that i nor anyone else in my family ever heard that fact from grandgrandparents. Doesnt really sound like something they would leave out...just because it was bad. They generally talked about everything, wether good or evil. Also im having hard time believing an israeli general. In many ways the israelis are extremely....emotional people who hold serius grudges over very little things.

[DonNicko]

Not even books man. The understanding about WW2 to most of us has come from survivors. Odd that i nor anyone else in my family ever heard that fact from grandgrandparents. Doesnt really sound like something they would leave out...just because it was bad. They generally talked about everything, wether good or evil. Also im having hard time believing an israeli general. In many ways the israelis are extremely....emotional people who hold serius grudges over very little things.

My understanding is also from my grandfather, many of my relatives were killed during WW2, or maybe you have understanding like prime-minister of Ukraine Yatsenyuk, and you would say that USSR atacked Germany. If you want to say that USSR made many evil things, then I know it. And when I show the evil from the other side, you try to say that I'm brainwashed. It is stupid to see only one side. Now I say that Donetsk are shelled everyday and just today 8 civilians were killed in the center of Donetsk by shelling. And Europe chooses to keep silense. And wjen I show what Donbass people think in reallity, you say that I and this people are brainwashed.

[Thomek]

Yea, thats what your propagandahistory claims. None of it is actually true. The na zis were dicks to jews, too everyone else they were relatively decent. Red army was dicks to everybody. Burned, looted and raped everything. This is all documented and true.  And 80%? Where the fuck did you read that horseshit? No offence Nicko, but your russian books have been more than proven to be wrong a lot, so its kinda impossible to believe them. In some cases your history sticks sw astikas on groups of people who never were na zis, but just common people, who the USSR just didnt like and murdered. Russian historians only get payed in russia, everywhere else their "knowledge" is garbage.

Well, ok now that we are on the past, Nicko has a point. The Baltics states, and many other countries handed over, and even helped killing off Jews. I.ex Norwegian police handed them over to be shipped off to Poland..  I also know some horror stories from Lithuania and Poland..

Now though, keep in mind that this all happened in a context where germans were seen as some kind of liberators. And anti-semittism was widespread in the whole of europe, and even US at the time. The germans just took those emotions way further than anyone else. As a consequence, as to not to confuse the post-war generation, that part of history is easily forgotten by the victors.

"The na zis were dicks to jews, too everyone else they were relatively decent."

Not really, no. From the very beginning of the war in the east they were merciless and brutal. For example, after the attack on the polish post office in Danzig they executed 38 prisoners.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_the_Polish_Post_Office_in_Danzig)

I really can't stand the idea that the chocolate chip cookies weren't so bad. Cause they were really really really bad. Much worse than anyone else, even though they all did horrible things. Let's say: The chocolate chip cookies were especially inhuman, a special case.

Now then:  The chocolate chip cookies in Ukraine are not the chocolate chip cookies of wwii. In Ukraine they would not exist if it were not for the idea that Russia has been abusing/holding back Ukraine in the post USSR time. Their existence is a reaction to Russia's actions.

Their style and philosophy convenient, to rally poor, stupid hooligans for the cause: A free Ukraine.  (Just like the chocolate chip cookies in Russia find a home, meaning, brotherhood and manliness, not so easily displayed with no money.)

They have power in Ukraine, because their subculture fought the hardest on Maidan, and stayed there afterwards. The new government had no choice, as there were no police to hold them back. Besides they are useful as non-corrupted troops, that will not leak everything to the RF.

Once Ukraine stabilizes they will again disappear and be marginalized.

[[ptx]]

The Baltic States handed over jews and helped in the Holocaust? Citations, please.

It has been fashionable for Russian 'historians' to call Baltics fascist since WW2. First, the nationalistic and autocratic pre-WW2 government in Latvia, for example, then the sizable SS Volunteer legion, that formed here, both they have been ceaselessly labeling as totally fascist (guess it was extremely important for SU propaganda machine to smear any resistance as evil), whilst neither of these things had anything to do with that.

[Vovka]

The Baltic States handed over jews and helped in the Holocaust? Citations, please.

It has been fashionable for Russian 'historians' to call Baltics fascist since WW2. First, the nationalistic and autocratic pre-WW2 government in Latvia, for example, then the sizable SS Volunteer legion, that formed here, both they have been ceaselessly labeling as totally fascist (guess it was extremely important for SU propaganda machine to smear any resistance as evil), whilst neither of these things had anything to do with that.

- I wonder what thought Estonian President about the threat from Russia?
- ...
- Fuck it let's look at the weather for tomorrow XD

[The_Bloody_Nine]

The na zis were dicks to jews, too everyone else they were relatively decent. Red army was dicks to everybody. Burned, looted and raped everything. This is all documented and true.

just no. All kinds of nations, sinti & roma, homesexuals, enemies of state and many others were worked and hungered to death by the hundreds of thousands in concentrations camps. You cannot imagine the horrors. The biggest difference to jews is that those would be sent to death camps immediately and the sheer number of jews compared to other groups. Also the Wehrmacht plus the Polizeibataillone im Hinterland where anything but 'relatively decent' to anyone.

I really can't stand the idea that the chocolate chip cookies weren't so bad. Cause they were really really really bad. Much worse than anyone else, even though they all did horrible things. Let's say: The chocolate chip cookies were especially inhuman, a special case.

Very difficult and interesting what makes the na zi case so special. In short I'd say the meticulously planned and realized method of killing insane high numbers of humans the most efficient way and the high numbers of people that connived, arranged and partook with the whole system without really being a na zi.

Does anybody know a number of resistance during Stalin-regime? Ullrich Herbert claims there have been about 2-3% per cent of population in active resistance in na zi germany, if I recall correctly.

[_RXN_]

Donetsk...

[Leshma]

just no. All kinds of nations, sinti & roma, homesexuals, enemies of state and many others were worked and hungered to death by the hundreds of thousands in concentrations camps.

Indeed. chocolate chip cookie regime had a vision of the perfect man and anyone who didn't fit was being discarded one way or another.

From what I know, Stalin's regime (him and people who out of fear followed his commands) killed everybody who opposed them. It wasn't about perfect man, it wasn't carefully planned. Therefore not a genocide.

[Kuujis]

Donetsk...

I wonder if Ukrainians finally found a proper target for their short range ballistic missiles. Also - fuck missiles, need to start up a window manufacturing plant! There will be a marked for that it seems  :?

The Baltic States handed over jews and helped in the Holocaust? Citations, please.

It has been fashionable for Russian 'historians' to call Baltics fascist since WW2. First, the nationalistic and autocratic pre-WW2 government in Latvia, for example, then the sizable SS Volunteer legion, that formed here, both they have been ceaselessly labeling as totally fascist (guess it was extremely important for SU propaganda machine to smear any resistance as evil), whilst neither of these things had anything to do with that.

You know - re citations - baltis definitely don't have the best track record when it comes to jew treatment during WW2. So its not black and white. One has to accept it and learn from it.

What I don't like and call bullshit on is the fact, that not much love was given to the "great savior" SU and its repressions. Resistance to it is being treated as being pro-naztee, which IS bullshit of russian degree.

[Christo]

Well the whole "Great Patriotic War" thing is ridiculous to begin with.

[[ptx]]

I wonder if Ukrainians finally found a proper target for their short range ballistic missiles. Also - fuck missiles, need to start up a window manufacturing plant! There will be a marked for that it seems 
You know - re citations - baltis definitely don't have the best track record when it comes to jew treatment during WW2. So its not black and white. One has to accept it and learn from it.

What I don't like and call bullshit on is the fact, that not much love was given to the "great savior" SU and its repressions. Resistance to it is being treated as being pro-naztee, which IS bullshit of russian degree.

There were, of course, collaborators among the Balts, just like anywhere else. I am yet to see any proof that Baltic nations were worse than others. What Thomek claimed though, is collaboration of the Baltic states as such, which ceased to function after WW2 started.