Meanwhile in Ukraine

[Thomek]

EU/US destabilizing Ukraine.. lol

NGO's and peaceful support. Yes. Polonium poisoning presidents, annexing parts of the country, Fixing elections/propaganding through russian TV, waging a proxy war inside Ukraine.. Not.

Bandera..

Because of Russia's meddling with and manipulating Ukr internal affairs on all levels through the last 500 years or so, a certain anti-russia (not russians so much)sentiment has of course grown. RS/Svoboda, the Bandera hype is a symptom of that. Just nationalism growing under oppression. If Russia would allow Ukraine true independence, none of that would exist, and I'm sure Ukraine would have a much more relaxed relation to RF as well.

I would think if germany ran huge campaigns as to who'm the next president of France would be, poisoning your prez etc.. , a certain anti-german sentiment would re-grow in France as well..

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[serr]

Ask polish and belarus people who is this Bandera, if you don't know and watch about Khatyn massacre.

Although I hate all politicians who try to hide current problems and earn some ratings by bringing this topic and therefore further destabilize situation, can you tell me what Bandera has to do with Khatyn?

[DonNicko]

Although I hate all politicians who try to hide current problems and earn some ratings by bringing this topic and therefore further destabilize situation, can you tell me what Bandera has to do with Khatyn?

Bandera himself nothing. What do you think of him?

[serr]

Bandera himself nothing. What do you think of him?

I don't care. Obviously he and his followers were either assholes or simply nationalistic retards who caused many deaths, but most other glorified heroes of different nations were alike.
UPA weren't naz is or fascists, but they weren't good guys either and they did some horrible ethnic cleansings, mostly against Poles. But now that's history and I really hate that it interferes with nowadays life.
I don't make difference between Bandera's glorifiers and haters. You may consider him a great hero or a horrible fiend and I will shake your hand, but only as long as you don't try to impose your opinion and attack those who don't agree with you.

[DonNicko]

I don't care. Obviously he and his followers were either assholes or simply nationalistic retards who caused many deaths, but most other glorified heroes of different nations were alike.
UPA weren't naz is or fascists, but they weren't good guys either and they did some horrible ethnic cleansings, mostly against Poles. But now that's history and I really hate that it interferes with nowadays life.
I don't make difference between Bandera's glorifiers and haters. You may consider him a great hero or a horrible fiend and I will shake your hand, but only as long as you don't try to impose your opinion and attack those who don't agree with you.

Yes, I agree that you don't have any moral advances to atack people who disagree with you. Just for me Bandera is like Stalin. And I can't get why ukranian parliament want to make him a hero.
Serr, can you say what do you think what association with the European Union will give to Ukraine, economically and so on.
Just for fun on russian and ukranian

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[serr]

Yes, I agree that you don't have any moral advances to atack people who disagree with you. Just for me Bandera is like Stalin. And I can't get why ukranian parliament want to make him a hero.

It is very simple. Svoboda has lost most of their support - both because of stupid freaks like Farion and Miroshnychenko and because of passiveness of other, more moderate members.
Freaks discouraged moderate part of their electorate and lack of action - radical retards that will now vote for Lyashko. Parliament elections will be in 2 weeks and I doubt they will even pass 5% barrier. Polls say they will likely get around 3%. So, they decided to play their favourite "Bandera is our hero" card to return at least some of support they lost.

Serr, can you say what association with the European Union will give to Ukraine, economically and so on.

It would require really long wall of text to answer in details, but in short - better laws in various spheres, open trade, which will likely kill half of our industry, but in long term will attract investments and probably create conditions for growth. And, probably, more important, it may open doors for other agreements, closer cooperation in different spheres and, I really hope, some control over our politicians and courts.

However, it's not something we think a lot about these days. I think with recent events most ukrainians even forgot we signed that deal. More important questions are if we'll survive the winter and when and how the war will continue.

[Tovi]

Just listen to Victoria Nuland. She admited the role of the US during Maidan and others "Orange" revolutions.
What is quite surprinsing for someone of my generation is the way yours (the 2000's) seems brainwashed. I've built my political consciousness in the 90's and it was common to admit than most governments were always lying, and few medias were trustfull. Most of the time we should receive the official informations. We did not believe it but we had no choice, not much different source of information. We were more sceptical and the concept of "conspiracy theory" did not exist.
Today, you MUST believe what your government says. If not, you are a conspiracy theorist (or a victim of it). Most medias (mainstream) have been bought by financial and industrial groups and they just repeat what politicians says.
I can recognize a young brainwashed of the 2000's when its only argument is "that conspiracy theory". This concept is propaganda. Because you don't even know what a conspiracy is. It's a little group of people trying to seize power (like Free Masons during french or american revolutions for exemple). Today, when a goverment lie, you must close your mouth or be a "terrorist" or a "conspiracy theorist". The Power always lie. It doesn't need to plot against its own people. It always has been this way.
Today we have access to a different information than official propaganda. But I don't see any conspiracy, only constant lies from the same little olygarchy.

[Christo]

What is quite surprinsing for someone of my generation is the way yours (the 2000's) seems brainwashed.

 

2000's kids are 14 year old at best, you senile idiot.

Also those times of yours are not valid anymore. Try to keep up with the world, things have changed in two decades, you know.

[Tovi]

2000's kids are 14 year old at best, you senile idiot.

Also those times of yours are not valid anymore. Try to keep up with the world, things have changed in two decades, you know.

You are stupid. As I consider myself a 90's generation because I was 20 during the 90's. I watched the wars of Yugoslavia and the first war in Iraq with the only western background informations. But I knew a part of the realty because I talked with some people who delivered french weapons to Croatians with the help of the french government. I'd like to have internet at this time to better understand the situation.

[DonNicko]

More important questions are if we'll survive the winter and when and how the war will continue.

I thought that Ukraine and Russia agreed on gas, if Ukraine will pay 2 billions till the end of October. For me is a question how ukranians and russians will contact, when I was in Kiev I really liked this town and people in it. I think the most good-natured people are in Belarus, then in Ukraine and then in Russia. Just how people react on russians in Ukraine now, will it soft relationship again?

[Tibe]

Today we have access to a different information than official propaganda. But I don't see any conspiracy, only constant lies from the same little olygarchy.

Yet, you somehow belive the words of idiots (and very questionably people/sources) so blindly. You just basically switched one liar for the other liar, cause you are afraid of the shadows and imaging monsters who aren't even there. Its okay not to belive the western media crap, but please dont make hardly believable conclusions in your head and call them facts.

[Christo]

You are stupid. As I consider myself a 90's generation because I was 20 during the 90's

Somebody tell him how generations work

[[ptx]]

Seeing as how his comprehension in other matters goes, i doubt it's worth the effort.

[Kafein]

Somebody tell him how generations work

Generations are an illusion fabricated by western propaganda

[Anuran]

The only thing I notice is people getting more and more receivable for conspiracy theories and less able to differentiate between the different media and contents they get presented and instead of seeing the complexity of things just make up their own truth. Which right now in germany seems go well with an incredible charitableness with Putin's and his fellow's actions.

„Conspiracy theory“… Is that meant to be an insult? However, I don’t see how Putin’s and “his fellow’s” actions make the German population less able to differentiate between the different media… German media mainly are indistinguishable already. If not forced into line…

By the way, I still got a question you didn’t answer yet.

Thank you for your constructive and helpful criticism.

What's your problem with the videos man?

@Anuran - so some political actress has an oppinion and supports one guy over the other. This is proof of... what exactly?

Wow, are you serious? You didn’t really pay attention to what they said. I also don’t talk to my neighbor and tell him about Merkel that she should call Obama 3 times a day and that the German finance minister should better become the foreign minister. I don’t say that to my neighbor for nothing.
Payette to Nuland: “[…] so I think you reaching out di­rect­ly to him helps with the personality management among the three and it gives you also a chance to move fast on all this stuff and put us behind it be­fore they all sit down and he explains why he doesn’t like it.”

You know, if russia AT LEAST PRETENDED to act in the interests of Ukraine, or did not shat left and right on international agreements - it might be worth talking with on the level you expect/propose. However - there is one sad thing, that only a VERY small minority in the west are willing to admit - russia will talk, only if it has a SIGNIFICANT upper hand and can raep you left and right OR when it has not much other choice. In the first case - not talking is sometimes better, in the second choice... well, it happened with China recently, what with all the gas deals (if you can call this a "deal", when even the price was not agreed upon  ) Ukraine is NOT in this situation and it chose to talk with the EU. Why should it invite russia?
I understand your reasoning, i.e. how butthurt russia basically means, that its neighbors have to bee butthurt too, but I do not support this attitude of russians and I think people that DO support this behavior are basically one step from supporting rape, because object of attraction married someone else.

Putin proposed a peace plan and he recently pulled back his troops on Ukrainian border. Ukraine did not pay its gas bills and is highly in debt. I also don’t get why you talk about “rape” coming from Russian side. There was an association agreement made some time ago and a Russia-correspondent of ARD with yearslong experience has said that this agreement would tear the Ukraine apart. And that, I quote, “we, the media, HAD to know and tell this”. This agreement was made between the EU and Ukraine as far as I remember. It was definitely not made between Russia and Ukraine. So who is raping here. “Not talking is sometimes better”, well, in this case it is definitely NOT better. Tell eastern Ukrainian civilians that it’s better if the West doesn’t talk to Russia.

Hell - national news-agency TASS is using some CREATED german professors to create artificial support for russia, which is then in turn appreciated by russian consumers

- Incubator-lie
- Iraq’s WMDs
For example.


Another thing concerning Udo Ulfkotte: He has published a book called “bought off journalists – how politicians, intelligence agencies and the high finance control Germany’s mass media” (“Gekaufte Journalisten – Wie Politiker, Geheimdienste und Hochfinanz Deutschlands Massenmedien lenken”) and it seems to be really really good. I don’t have it (yet?) so I don’t know what’s written inside, I can only assume the main point. It’s also said that journalists who publish an article about this book might get fired… When a Dutch journalist called FAZ (where Ulfkotte worked for years) and asked FAZ for a statement concerning the book. But they just don’t give a comment on the book. They just keep quiet collectively. His book must contain too much truth.