Poll

What do you want in your DTV map?

Bots spawn/attack from 2 or more directions.
25 (15%)
Bots spawn/attack from generally one direction. (Very linear).
32 (19.2%)
More open terrain to allow for better fighting and various tactics.
40 (24%)
Narrow paths (spam overhead) where the only way bots getting past you is over your dead body, which might result from getting shot in the back of your head by teammates.
20 (12%)
Dynamic props (i.e. Ballistas and portcullis for gatehouses)
42 (25.1%)
Ballistas? No thank you. My MW Light Crossbow is enough.
2 (1.2%)
Something else (post in comments)
6 (3.6%)

Total Members Voted: 73

Author Topic: Thranduil's DTV maps. Feedback Thread. (Currently on map-making hiatus)  (Read 11149 times)

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Offline Patoson

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+1
Oh, if there is a crank, then my bad. I thought the gate just couldn't be opened, because that last player wouldn't do anything even after I told him where they were. I just didn't see it and figured it was a bug that bots spawned there.

Offline Thranduil

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+1
Oh, if there is a crank, then my bad. I thought the gate just couldn't be opened, because that last player wouldn't do anything even after I told him where they were. I just didn't see it and figured it was a bug that bots spawned there.

Haha. No, but it is buggy in the version in rotation. The crank is at the top of the stairs on the side of the building.
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Offline Patoson

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I think that the castle map you edited for the last patch, the one with an open area with trees to the left through the big gate and where, before, there was an exploitable house accessed with a ballista was better when it had the doors we could open to access their spawn. Cav still gets stuck and not being able to go through there makes it more tedious in my opinion.

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I think that the castle map you edited for the last patch, the one with an open area with trees to the left through the big gate and where, before, there was an exploitable house accessed with a ballista was better when it had the doors we could open to access their spawn. Cav still gets stuck and not being able to go through there makes it more tedious in my opinion.

Hmmm.... right now I'm not sure what I can do. The doors get glitchy as you've seen (and the portcullis in Grey Havens is doing the same thing.  :shock: ). I suppose I could place a couple of portcullis, though they might be a bit too exploitable, .... assuming they don't glitch out like in Grey Havens. I'll see if I can come up with something.
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Offline Thranduil

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+1
So after a little fiddling, I think this could work, as long as the portcullis and winch props behave. Hopefully, even if ppl stand in front of the gates, the bots won't be lured to get stuck on the gates....or at least, not that many.

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Offline Patoson

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+2
Yet another cheap "tactic" in DTV - Desert Valley map:
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Offline Thranduil

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Yet another cheap "tactic" in DTV - Desert Valley map:
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Haha. Nice. Took them long enough to figure that out. Unfortunately, I don't know who made that map.  :?
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Offline Rico

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+2
Stating my personal opinion about each of your maps. Please remember it is just opinions, not claiming that anything of it is objective or true, it is all my (biased) observations!

+---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Celtic Ruins
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It's a great map, since there are enough entrances to make it challenging. It's good for team players who like shieldwalls, and also lone wolfs get there share since they can charge out to the two meadows, flank at the left or right tower passage, or use the corridor with the one idle ballista. The spawns are close enough and no bots get stuck, so you rarely end up waiting for the last kill and getting bored.

City Revolt
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I feel like the meadow spawn behind the river could be closer to the town, but otherwise, the map is perfect for similar reasons as the previous map.

Desert Ruins
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Playable with 25+ players. If there are less, you keep chasing stray cavalry bots for several minutes and it is impossible to send players close to all spawns. Since the map is large and the spawns are all far from the center in different directions, it's a lot of running around risking that one line is undefended at the next wave, or idle waiting. I appreciate the artistic value of this map, but the layout make the gameplay with few players a pain. This is not one of my favorites.

Grey Havens
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Given the rapidly dwindling server population when this map pops up, I think the majority of players does not like it. I consider myself one of them, because the landing stage is too long and bots get stuck there, the left spawn is too far away and too hard to reach to kill the bots quickly, and the gate makes finishing this map in short and intense fights even harder, because the nature of the other spawns makes them top priority, so that the gate spawn is the last being dealt with, whenever less than 25 players are online. Playing this map feels like a train trip on blocked railroads.

Please make it easier to reach the landing bridge without taking damage from falling, move the left spawn closer to V, and find a solution that the gate does not become an annoying bottleneck when few players are online. Maybe remove the gate spawn completely and make the other spawns closer/easier to reach.

Lichens Island
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This map has an amazing layout, and I love that ranged players have the chance to cover all entrances from the roof above V. It is a lot of fun to pew pew there. Lone wolf melee players enjoy the beach and the gate, teamplayers get the side door. However, it would not hurt to move all the spawns closer, too. The beach spawn just a bit, the spawns around the gatehouse and next to the side door should be significantly closer. The side door is easy to block within some seconds after the map starts, and the gate is closed anyways, so the bots should not have to run all the way to reach it. The only spawn that could make this map unbalanced if you moved it closer to V is the beach spawn, because beach cannot be handled by just a few guys. This is why I suggest to move it closer as well, but not as much as the other spawns. After doing this, the map will be more intense and interesting to play, and waiting time will be reduced once more. Despite these minor (but imho necessary) improvements, the map is really nice and fun. Good job :mrgreen:

Mein Bridge
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Not everyone likes it, but I do. Good mix of teamwork, lonewolfing and ranged fighting opportunities, again. Just peasants getting stuck half-way down on the cliff are sometimes annoying, but it rarely happens.

Motte & Bailey
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Great map, I love it very much. It is challenging because you never reach the gate at the bridge before the bots of the first wave do, so there is fights that feels a bit like the street skirmishes in Vengard, the capital city in Gothic III (really great game in case you did not play it). All these bots hit your wide-spread teammates trying to reach the gate and blocking it, and they usually hit like a truck :mrgreen: It is so much fun, and the reward is wonderful and well-deserved, because getting good exp/gold once the gate is blocked is pretty much set.

Viking Village
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Please make the meadows smaller and the spawns closer. The bots which get stuck very often in the houses on the ladders piss me off, but it wouldn't be that much trouble if they spawned closer and the rounds were faster overall. What kills the fun of DTV is usually that one bot or bot group that has to be taken care of after 99.9% of the hard fight is over. If you can minimize this on all the maps I observed it on, your on average good maps become very good maps.

Sankyu for all your efforts, you did a great job overall!
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Offline Thranduil

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Thanks for the comments and detailed feedback. I definitely agree with some of your points. Hopefully my updates will fix some of the problems you mentioned. Namely with Grey Havens and maybe Viking Village.

Desert Ruins needs some work. Maybe even a near-complete revision.
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Offline Thranduil

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+1
Made more changes to Grey Havens and Viking Village and some changes to Desert Ruins, blocking off one of the entrances. I haven't uploaded any of them for public download yet, and they didn't make the patch this time. Sorry.

I'll get around to uploading them sometime today hopefully.
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Offline Rico

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Sankyu, looking forward to see them implemented in the next patch :mrgreen:
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Offline Patoson

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Re: Thranduil's DTV maps. Feedback Thread. (Currently on map-making hiatus)
« Reply #116 on: June 10, 2014, 06:26:58 pm »
+1
I like the changes, Thranduil. Good work!

But I have a suggestion for the "LOTR-cave-map" (sorry, I don't remember the name): in order to fix bots getting stuck in the middle of the fall down the hole, on the wall, maybe change the wall to something straight (with no relief), so, if bots fall down, they fall all the way down?

There's also another place where they get stuck: underneath the furthest right edge of the wide bridge on the left. Maybe the same idea of a single straight vertical wall would fix that, and also removing that rocky elevation above that spot, so there would be nothing but straight wall (our side), bridge, straight wall (other side).

If this could really work, it would be great, because the map is fun otherwise.

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Re: Thranduil's DTV maps. Feedback Thread. (Currently on map-making hiatus)
« Reply #117 on: June 10, 2014, 11:16:24 pm »
+2
I like the changes, Thranduil. Good work!

But I have a suggestion for the "LOTR-cave-map" (sorry, I don't remember the name): in order to fix bots getting stuck in the middle of the fall down the hole, on the wall, maybe change the wall to something straight (with no relief), so, if bots fall down, they fall all the way down?

There's also another place where they get stuck: underneath the furthest right edge of the wide bridge on the left. Maybe the same idea of a single straight vertical wall would fix that, and also removing that rocky elevation above that spot, so there would be nothing but straight wall (our side), bridge, straight wall (other side).

If this could really work, it would be great, because the map is fun otherwise.

I'll see about getting to work on that as soon as I can. Just started a part time retail job yesterday so hours are a bit shaky.... and it will probably stay that way until I can find a job where I can use my brain a bit (Engineering degree doth not a job guarantee) with more steady hours.
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Re: Thranduil's DTV maps. Feedback Thread. (Currently on map-making hiatus)
« Reply #118 on: June 11, 2014, 12:20:24 am »
+1
Alright then. I'll keep the spam to a minimum.  :D      Best of luck with that, Thranduil!

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Re: Thranduil's DTV maps. Feedback Thread. (Currently on map-making hiatus)
« Reply #119 on: July 14, 2014, 05:22:41 pm »
+2
After the changes in Desert Ruins, now bots spawn and get stuck behind the border fence on the back-right sometimes.

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