2h Bastard Sword Type Weapons

[Tydeus]

I seriously question YOUR knowledge of this game. You cannot tell me that 2handers can't turn faster than a polearm when they can 180 and polearms can't even come close anymore due to the old wiggly pikes and all.

Once again, I find myself reluctantly going through each bit of one of your posts pointing out the inaccuracies.

People look at the stats on these weapons and don't realize that 2handed animations are practically +2 - 3 speed compared to others

While you could actually argue that for right-to-left swings(wouldn't necessarily make it true, it would just mean you finally found a good foothold for an argument), you can't for any of the other three directions, I should know, I altered the animations specifically to remove such discrepancies. I was the one who tweaked 3 of the four polearm animations and 2 of the four 1h animations. Go run some actual test rather than relying solely on anecdotal evidence and whatever else you may currently be using.

especially when you add in the fact that for some reason 2handers have time and time again dodged the turn speed nerf that affected pretty much every other class (I know it affected polearms and shielders, not sure about pure 1handers). The absolute dumbest thing about 2handers is that they can 180 stab all the time.

I personally worked on the turn speed formula that we are using with Urist, not only does it affect all melee classes, shields play no role in the formula. Furthermore, not all weapons in a class are treated the same way. Urist posted the formula on the forums, I suggest searching for it.

Then, factor in the turn speed with their already high side swing speed, and you get instant hiltslashing capabalities. If 2handers just received the long overdue turn speed nerf, then these weapons might approach some semblance of balance.

Turn speed doesn't affect hiltslashing capabilities in the least. Not only can you turn far enough just with the ready animation, but even the slowest turn speed weapons are more than capable of turning enough to allow you to have your opponent positioned at the right spot relative to your facing, to allow you to hiltslash. What makes the biggest difference here is footwork and then weapon damage, this has been covered countless times in the past. As for your conclusion, well it's clearly based on a false premise and is therefore every bit as inaccurate as the rest of your post.

Please, stop spreading misinformation.

[Jona]

Blah blah blah...

As a self-proclaimed wise man once said: "Please, stop spreading misinformation."

How the heck you have maintained your grasp on the item "balance" position this long is just disgusting. Never before has there been such class favoritism, cuz guess what? You play as a 2hander. Yeah, no surprises here. The whole reason 2handers are fed up with the "2hand hatred bandwagon" is because so many people are on it. Now lets just sit back and ask ourselves a simple question: Why on earth would the majority of the community bash a perfectly balanced class? Oh, HAH! right.. maybe because it's the most broken piece of shit in this game and anyone who hasn't hopped on the 2hand hero bandwagon is strongly against them?

You are lacking so many braincells that when you killed someone with an estoc in "polearm mode" you said that it wasn't exploiting 2hand gayness in any way, since the polearm kill picture popped up.

[Paul]

Haha, it's like argueing with a hardcore creationist.

[Jona]

Haha, it's like argueing with a hardcore creationist.

Yep, there is no talking sense into Tydeus. Myself and the rest of the community OBSERVE 2handers being gay. Tydeus: "Nah man, they are perfectly balanced. Just trust me on this. Here are some numbers that you are forced to believe because I am the only one who can give them to you so I'm gonna just bullshit this."

[Elindor]

Haha, it's like argueing with a hardcore creationist.

Yep, there is no talking sense into Tydeus.

Jona, I'm not sure if Paul was referring to you or to Tydeus...just thought I'd put that out there...it's kinda ambiguous.
Oh, and Paul - I will put this in a spoiler because it's long

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Many modern day Christians actually believe that the universe was created just the same way that scientific research indicates (rapid expansion of pure energy from a singularity of time/space "big bang", formation of stars and galaxies from hydrogen and dust, formation of planets and the evolution of life forms on the earth and most likely other planets throughout the universe, and progression of those life forms into higher forms like us) - they just believe that there is an external entity responsible for this manifestation and it's incredddddddibly exact parameters which if were even one part in a quintillion (big big number) different than they are, our universe and our prime planet would not exist.  In fact, Genesis, when translated from the original Hebrew and explained by an instructed theologist, has no inconsistencies with the scientific research that has been found - it is just a much simplified and abbreviated version (which makes sense since the Bible wasn't meant to be a scientific document, it is meant to explain whom that entity is, and it's relation with us).  As for Catholicism, I cannot speak for that - it's so unbiblical anyhow that it's funny.  If you are interested I can explain more, but just wanted to put that out there.  Thanks for reading.  Oh, and I take no offense to your comment - hardcore creationists can be silly

Side note :

Not EVERYONE uses 2h because its "OP and easy".  Many, like myself, use it because we like swords.  I like all medieval weaponry and armor (love everything medieval actually) but especially swords.  There is something I really like about them and think their form is beautiful - in fact I own a custom forged knightly arming sword (full tang, high carbon steel, sharpened...its a beauty) (Yes, it's actually a 1h sword, but I am going to get a 2h one soon also )

I'd play 2h if it sucked, and if it was super hard mode in this game.  I like 1h/shield, and I like polearms, but even if they got more "OP" than 2h I would still play 2h.

Also, not everyone thinks they are some hero because they use 2h.  Historically, knights started using 2h weapons when armor got stronger, because they felt they could now do without the shield and therefore opt for a 2h weapon with more damage and reach.

If that makes me gay or a noob or whatever other shit you guys like to spew then so be it...I play this game because it's fun and it's the only game where I can enter into melee medieval combat with people that isn't just hacking - not to impress a bunch of college (or often younger) kids with my leet skillz, no offense.

Here's the point : I understand that you feel theres injustice going on with 2h and that you should beat everyone who uses one cause they are all noobs, but just try to relax and discuss the matter in an informed and rational manner, otherwise no one who has the power to change anything is going to listen.

Also, you are usually a decent guy (from what I can tell).
Now, you may not give a crap what I have to say on the matter...but if you have read thus far, thanks for your time.

[Tydeus]

Yep, there is no talking sense into Tydeus. Myself and the rest of the community OBSERVE 2handers being gay. Tydeus: "Nah man, they are perfectly balanced. Just trust me on this. Here are some numbers that you are forced to believe because I am the only one who can give them to you so I'm gonna just bullshit this."

Go download openBRF and look at the animations.
Native Animations:
Mountblade Warband/CommonRes/ani_attacks.brf
2h thrust:
Mountblade Warband/CommonRes/skeletons.brf
My anims:
Mountblade Warband/Modules/cRPG/Resource/anim_tydeus_nudges.brf

Right click on the animation you want to look at, then split via action.txt, with skeletons.brf, you're looking for anim_human_release_thrust_twohanded

Horizontal swing sweetspots are decided by the angle between your facing(where you're looking) and where your opponent is positioned. Basically what you're looking for, for horizontal swings, is on what frame the weapon is able to hit someone located around 2-3 o'clock, then divide by the total number of frames in the release animation and it will tell you how far into the animation's progression that is.

This is the last time I go out of my way to try and help you inform yourself, next time I'm just going to click the -1 and skip your post the moment I see bullshit. Since you clearly forgot about the recent argument we had on nearly this same exact subject, here's a refresher.

Yeah no shit I made up numbers, I said "for example" for a reason. Not everyone has access to all the info. At least I don't pull numbers out of my ass and try to pass them off as the truth. For all we know, that could very well be what you are doing since gameplay just doesn't back up what you are saying. And you can't go saying I'm some ignorant dumbass who only complains about what kills him when I only complain about 2handers... or rather, myself and 50% of the community complains about 2handers. The only reason the other 50% doesn't is because they are all the 2handers.

Jesus Christ, man. Fine, I'll give you screenshots, lets hope you can follow pictures better than words. 

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This is frame 1 of the release animation, note the location of the tip of the sword, as well as what frame we're on(there are two ways, look at the green vertical line near the bottom of the screen or look at the "1" at the bottom toolbar).

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This is the start of the sweetspot. Again, note the location of the tip as well as what frame we're on(6).

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This is the end of the sweetspot. Once again, focus on where the tip is located as well as what frame we're on(11).

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Finally, we're at the very end of the release animation. Nothing new, you're looking at where the tip is located, as well as verifying that we are indeed at frame 17.

To conclude, the tip travels across 13 squares in this entire animation. The sweetspot starts in square 2 and ends in square 10. So with some simple math, 10/13 we can see that about 23% of the total distance the sword moves, comes after the end of the 100% damage sweetspot. As a reminder, Sweetspots for thrust are 35% progression to 65% progression. To see how far in the animation we have progressed, just do the same thing: current frame/total frames. Thus, your made up numbers (when we chose to ignore specifics and only focus on the point that is trying to be communicated) turns out to be completely wrong opposite of reality.

Just more of you accusing me of creating numbers out of thin air because they don't agree with your perception of reality, then I follow up with proof which you still don't seem capable of swallowing. Observation is great, but you have to be honest and aware of the times when your eyes are deceiving you. This is the internet, no one and nothing is ever actually where it appears to be.

[Elindor]

This is the internet, no one and nothing is ever actually where it appears to be.

Except maybe for Canary...with 4 ping he probably sees us all pretty much where we actually are 
The rest of us see everything in varying degrees of being out of sync

[Jarold]

Haha, it's like argueing with a hardcore creationist evolutionist.

 

[Tydeus]

Lets not make jokes like that, the last thing we need is more people believing evolution is somehow a "lie".

[rustyspoon]

2h is fine and has been fine for a while. Complaining about 2h takes complaints away from the real horror of this mod, which is xbow.

[karasu]

Stay on topic plex. kthxbai

[Kafein]

Weapon stats were placed on the website by the Devil to fool you !

[Necrorave]

After the patch, I remained patient trying not to spew hatred towards these weapons like I usually do.  Although, I think it got worse haha.

While I still stand by my earlier post of a -1 to cut damage across the board.  I also feel a -1 to speed might be needed as well, or for the Estoc at least.

EDIT: The following is based on the Estoc

While I may feel this way because it is a new weapon and do not yet know how to deal with them effectively, I do think it is quite easy to spam stabs at charging enemies and retreating enemies.

The high damage makes it stun and harm the victim even at close ranges.

Although, if the "Half Swording" stab was presented I feel it would fix these issues.  This is pure speculation of course like any other opinion on this topic.

[Kalam]

It's funny how anti-bastard sentiments generally mention the stab as the thing they hate most about it.

Funny because the stab is also a weakness you can exploit. Here's the thing: every time someone stabs, there's a window that causes a stun upon a well-timed block. There are a few players who exploit this. Now, I don't know if it's because two-handers are most familiar with two-handers or if it's something else, but the bastard family of swords seem like the easiest ones to stun to me. Either way, if you're going to complain about 2h, consider this. You can disbelieve, call bullshit, or experiment for yourself in the duel server until you want longsword users to stab you so you can get a free slash in.

[Necrorave]

It's funny how anti-bastard sentiments generally mention the stab as the thing they hate most about it.

Funny because the stab is also a weakness you can exploit. Here's the thing: every time someone stabs, there's a window that causes a stun upon a well-timed block. There are a few players who exploit this. Now, I don't know if it's because two-handers are most familiar with two-handers or if it's something else, but the bastard family of swords seem like the easiest ones to stun to me. Either way, if you're going to complain about 2h, consider this. You can disbelieve, call bullshit, or experiment for yourself in the duel server until you want longsword users to stab you so you can get a free slash in.

I know the "Weakness" you speak of but I think you may have misunderstood my viewpoint.  (If this was directed towards me)

My case was basically just against the Estoc.  (Forgot to mention that, sorry)

The other swords I only have a problem with the existence of cut damage.  The stab for the other swords is fair game if you ask me.

PS: The claim you make is like using saying "If you can chamber it, then its not a big deal.".  The problem is that most people cannot chamber efficiently enough to do it in every situation they come across.  While what you say is true, it cannot be used to invalidate opinions.