WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)

[Novamere]

Major update to reimbursements. Had a bit of a chat with chadz where I mentioned some concerns I had about the current reimbursements. Before you jump to conclusions or start planning your new builds, please remember to test all future builds with a stf character first. We would really like to avoid knee jerk reactions so again, please make sure you're really testing a build out with a STF before you decide to stick with a specific build for your characters.  chadz just confirmed we will in fact be doing full character respecs for everyone. Keep in mind that all item stats are subject to change, don't create a build around one specific weapon that you think is/will be OP, it could very well end up getting changed in the future and you will not be given another free respec.

So with this said do you have a better eta on release? Since you have talked with the donkey man and all.

[Rebelyell]

Full respec? Lol... gj its total bull**it. Thanks in advance for killing this mod. Was fun!

Next time please just dont give a shit about balancing this mod just because of this useless strategus where 95%of ppl playing it is for free easy farming xp and dont give a shit  about conquest.

im really disapointed by how the things are going.

Whats wrong with that for you?
How that will hurt you on anything, I dont get that, you really hate str whores that much?

[Royans]

Bringing everyone to the same kind of build is going to be boring. Thats not crpg. Mod is fine as it is. Thats all.
stop try to change what it doesnt need to be change lol..

[San]

Can you guys hear the world's tiniest violin playing for the dude that'll be running around with 200 wpf and a 103 speed weapon? Maybe I don't want to drop power throw after all; because a lucky spear to the head will probably be my only chance to kill him now. His Liuyedao will have a higher effective speed than a Rondel Dagger wielded with 1wpf.

P.S.-San, what helmet will you wear once you have 15 str?

It was mostly just a joke, pointing out the fun that strength builds would get a more desired build while I can't even take off a useless skill point . I'll probably just wear the nordic helm, I don't really need a heavy helmet. I knew a free respec was right around the corner ever since the summer but shelling out 3million for it a little early was still worth it.

I think 6-9agi strength builds would still be very good. Currently, a heavy strength build is inferior to a guy who's stacking even more strength. I think the tradeoffs of being slightly faster/slower than an opponent is pretty good with the change. Balanced builds are indirectly buffed, but they'll still have to worry about those who have slightly more strength or agility.

[Rebelyell]

Bringing everyone to the same kind of build is going to be boring. Thats not crpg. Mod is fine as it is. Thats all

wut
I still prefer 24 15 over agi one, peps will make whatever they want and with more  hybrid possibilities there will be way more different combos around in my opinion.

[Penitent]

Respec is fine.  It's the most fair way to do it.

Most people will just re-build the same character.  THIS WPF CHANGE IS NOT THAT BIG OF A CHANGE.

Str builds aren't even being affected that much -- they'll just have less wpf.  All this means is that most pure str (0 WM) builds will have to take 1 or 2 less Powerstrike (minus 1.5 - 3.5 damage per swing) and take some WM instead.

Not exactly ground-breaking folks.

I'm more interested in the item patch.

Tydeus-- is the item patch coming out at the same time as the wpf patch, or after? (sorry if you mentioned this already).  Also, are these patches going to be a 1-2 punch right after each other, or can we expect some time to elapse between them?

Thanks!  Love you!

[Royans]

So ur saying they wont be affected so much. So why a full respec? Lol

[Penitent]

They are also nerfing Archer accuracy with this patch to, to compensate for the wpf change and increase in accuracy that it'll bring.

I'm kind of curious about this.  Is wpf itself going to increase accuracy, or is it just anticipated that archers will be taking more wpf and applying it to archery?

If I read the changes correctly, archers with 4, 5, or 6 WM will not be getting any more wpf than before, (str archers may be getting less) so unless I'm missing something it wouldn't make sense to decrease accuracy across the board.

[Algarn]

I'm kind of curious about this.  Is wpf itself going to increase accuracy, or is it just anticipated that archers will be taking more wpf and applying it to archery?

If I read the changes correctly, archers with 4, 5, or 6 WM will not be getting any more wpf than before, (str archers may be getting less) so unless I'm missing something it wouldn't make sense to decrease accuracy across the board.

It's what I fear ... I fear that I get almost nothing from the patch, and then, eat a really good nerf right in my face.

[Elindor]

Am I correct that the effectiveness of WPF is not changing?  Just how much WPF you get from WM basically.

[Tydeus]

So ur saying they wont be affected so much. So why a full respec? Lol

Lots of reasons. Simplicity, equal opportunities for all, you can ensure you aren't harming any player more than another? Then you get into tertiary side effects like a disproportionate number of players being able to switch to ranged/melee+ranged hybrids, rather than ranged/melee + ranged to dedicated melee, which would mean it's inevitably going to increase the number of ranged on the servers(which isn't desirable).

Oh, and this provides a better social experiment.

Edit: Archers aren't actually getting an accuracy nerf, this is because the 1s bows don't gain an effective accuracy increase by this change, even if they do find a way to sink an additional 20-30 points into their archery wpf. This is because those bows are already very accurate. The wpf per pd penalty is being very slightly tweaked so that very high pd builds keep their effectiveness. What is a larger concern for archer balance, is the rate of fire increase that comes with the additional wpf. This is the stat that we're lowering on bows, not accuracy.

Elindor, yes, the effects that each point of wpf grant stay exactly the same.
 

[Penitent]

It's what I fear ... I fear that I get almost nothing from the patch, and then, eat a really good nerf right in my face.

That's what was kind of worried about too....my main is not an archer, but archers have been nerfed so much I don't see how reducing accuracy is called for.  They will be getting the same wpf changes as everyone else -- they will not be benefiting from this more than other classes.  Str archers will be hurt just like str melee will be hurt and will have to adjust.

[pepejul]

the most important question is :

WHEN DO I RESPEC ???? 

[Elindor]

Elindor, yes, the effects that each point of wpf grant stay exactly the same.

Gotcha...something interesting to remind people of then is this quote from WaltF4 in the game mechanics megathread:

To put this in perspective, a level 30 character with 3 agility, no weapon master, and 110 polearm proficiency would attack ~5% slower than a level 30 character with 27 agility, 9 weapon master, and 180 polearm proficiency if both characters were to use a speed 94 polearm. The absolute difference in time per attack between these two characters would be ~0.06 seconds. This is significantly less than the 12% difference in attack speed one would expect if agility was providing the purported 0.5% reduction in attack speed per point and the difference of 70 proficiency was ignored.

With that in mind, after the patch, someone with 0 polearm WPF will swing around ~8-10% slower than someone with 180 polearm WPF from what I can tell.  This would roughly equate to ~0.10 seconds instead of the previous ~0.06 difference in absolute time per attack between characters.

So, bottom line remains the same people - small differences in WPF between you and your opponent are not going to change speed difference more than a couple percent (and probably less than a tenth of a second).

What this patch will do (as intended) is make it so that people that do not invest hardly anything in WM will be somewhat slower as they should be. 

Now, with the new WPF potential you can attain, characters who hit these 200+ wpf may be significantly faster than those with lower WPF...
And someone with 250 WPF will attack about 5% faster than someone with 170 WPF it would appear, or 0.06 seconds difference in absolute time per attack.

[Tydeus]

Gotcha...something interesting to remind people of then is this quote from WaltF4 in the game mechanics megathread:

With that in mind, after the patch, someone with 0 polearm WPF will swing around ~8-10% slower than someone with 180 polearm WPF from what I can tell.  This would roughly equate to ~0.10 seconds instead of the previous ~0.06 difference in absolute time per attack between characters.

So, bottom line remains the same people - small differences in WPF between you and your opponent are not going to change speed difference more than a couple percent (and probably less than a tenth of a second).

What this patch will do (as intended) is make it so that people that do not invest hardly anything in WM will be somewhat slower as they should be. 

Now, with the new WPF potential you can attain, characters who hit these 200+ wpf may be significantly faster than those with lower WPF...
And someone with 250 WPF will attack about 5% faster than someone with 170 WPF it would appear, or 0.06 seconds difference in absolute time per attack.

A point of note for this, is that WaltF4 did his tests by seeing how many swings he could do in a minute. This means he was looking at the total time a swing takes from start to finish but in reality, we don't take nearly that long to hit an opponent with our swings. Generally we hit somewhere around 30(early hit thrusts,1h left swing, str builds turning into their swings)-50%. This means that the .1 and .06 second difference gets reduced to an effective .04~ and .02~, respectably.