WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)

[Novamere]

Not fair really to even give a respec.

I saw this coming too and went agility focused, strength builds wanted to abuse game mechanics and should continue to sleep in the beds they made.

Abuse what game mechanics you mean being extremely tamky and doing alot of damage but sacrificing all mobility? Id like to know what abuse of game mechanics they have hahaha

[Canuck]

Release this damn patch already!  I was already planning on a 1h/2h build using a langes and with this global proficiency thing it'll be even better!

[Jarlek]

It will be a necessity if you are really interested in actually using the other proficiencies. It's just something to incentivize and make easier those types of hybrid builds.

Would it be possible to make it so melee wpf in one category makes melee wpf in others "cheaper"?

Aka, getting 100 wpf takes 200 wpp, but if you got 100 wpf in one melee wpf, than the others only cost, say, 150 wpp to get to 100.

Could also be capped so the reduced price is only for "half" the main wpf or something.

[Prpavi]

If you buffing halfswording make GS's a point faster and and buff swing damage in secondary mode, I'm sure that will take away some lolstabbers 

[Kampfkarotte]

I hope pure STR builds won't be fucked up, they are really fun to play.  Game is quite balanced at the moment, but score is not.

[Tydeus]

Would it be possible to make it so melee wpf in one category makes melee wpf in others "cheaper"?

Aka, getting 100 wpf takes 200 wpp, but if you got 100 wpf in one melee wpf, than the others only cost, say, 150 wpp to get to 100.

Could also be capped so the reduced price is only for "half" the main wpf or something.

Not without a hell of a lot more work. Just wait a bit till the patch comes, then take a look at how it works. I think people will be satisfied with what we decided on.

[Jarlek]

Not without a hell of a lot more work. Just wait a bit till the patch comes, then take a look at how it works. I think people will be satisfied with what we decided on.

That was what I thought. Would have been interesting, though.

[Phew]

Abuse what game mechanics you mean being extremely tamky and doing alot of damage but sacrificing all mobility? Id like to know what abuse of game mechanics they have hahaha

I don't think anyone is really complaining about the damage that strength builds do; they do sacrifice mobility to get that damage like you said.

The "abuse of game mechanics" people refer to is the MASSIVE animation sweetspots that are enabled with high power strike. This allows strength builds to effectively swing faster than agility builds, since they can turn so far into their swings that they connect right as the animation is beginning. I don't think taleworlds had 40/3 +3 Miaodao wielders in mind when they came up with the animation sweetspot mechanics.

I've always thought that sweetspot size should be a function of wpf, and not damage.

[Novamere]

I don't think anyone is really complaining about the damage that strength builds do; they do sacrifice mobility to get that damage like you said.

The "abuse of game mechanics" people refer to is the MASSIVE animation sweetspots that are enabled with high power strike. This allows strength builds to effectively swing faster than agility builds, since they can turn so far into their swings that they connect right as the animation is beginning. I don't think taleworlds had 40/3 +3 Miaodao wielders in mind when they came up with the animation sweetspot mechanics.

I've always thought that sweetspot size should be a function of wpf, and not damage.

Ahhhhh okay that makes sense now thanks for clearing it up!

[Lt_Anders]

Concerning point redistribution:
Knock all player points over 18 down to 18(whether agi or strength) and then let people build from there.

Since 18/18 would be a nominal, baseline build, that should be fair to all sides in the upcoming change.

So, a 24/15 becomes 18/15. A 21/21 becomes 18/18, etc...
Perhaps with a max of like 15 total points allowed. (so the 40/3 gets dropped to 25/3 instead of 34/3)

[Phew]

Since 18/18 would be a nominal, baseline build, that should be fair to all sides in the upcoming change.

None of the proposed "refund" scenarios (yours included) help out the classes most harmed by this change; melee/ranged hybrids (xbow excluded; they basically get a free respec). The refund scenario in the OP allows certain wholesale class changes (such as 2h->archer or polearm->xbow+1h), while excluding much more minor class changes (melee primary+archer secondary->pure melee).

If hybrid xbowmen are allowed to dump their xbow wpf, why can't hybrid archers dump their PD and hybrid throwers dump their PT?

I say have the refund script do the following: If a player's wpf in any melee proficiency is greater than their wpf in archery or throwing, refund their skill points in PD/PT. Otherwise you are going to end up with a lot of melee+ranged hybrids that no longer have the available wpp to support their build.

[San]

The patch will make my desired 15/30 build annoying to make with that pesky 2 shield skill in the way since I miss out on a skill point. That's why I need to level up before the big update.

[Lt_Anders]

None of the proposed "refund" scenarios (yours included) help out the classes most harmed by this change; melee/ranged hybrids (xbow excluded; they basically get a free respec). The refund scenario in the OP allows certain wholesale class changes (such as 2h->archer or polearm->xbow+1h), while excluding much more minor class changes (melee primary+archer secondary->pure melee).

If hybrid xbowmen are allowed to dump their xbow wpf, why can't hybrid archers dump their PD and hybrid throwers dump their PT?

I say have the refund script do the following: If a player's wpf in any melee proficiency is greater than their wpf in archery or throwing, refund their skill points in PD/PT. Otherwise you are going to end up with a lot of melee+ranged hybrids that no longer have the available wpp to support their build.

Cause, that's basically more or less full scale respec. My change(and his) are to allow people who put to much, one way or the other, to actually get BACK their skills. What you're asking for is, essentially a repec out of Class 1 into class 2.

By making it 18/18 or some combination, it's a not a full respec, and your choice to this point still MATTER, but it won't be a you get screwed over from a change. And if you're an archer NOW, the likelihood of you switching is extremely low. Also, melee will still have their skills above whatever scheme we talk about. Every class is effect, not just archers, so stop whining.

Also: melee ranged hybrid will still be just fine(just you'd have something like a 100/80 split or 97/97 split. Infact, this update WOULD have screwed thrower hybrids over if they didn't change PT from 13 to 11. In fact, I'll have +20 more wpf for throwing lances even though I'd LOSE 3 points.

They are also nerfing Archer accuracy with this patch to, to compensate for the wpf change and increase in accuracy that it'll bring.

[Phew]

The patch will make my desired 15/30 build annoying to make with that pesky 2 shield skill in the way since I miss out on a skill point. That's why I need to level up before the big update.

Can you guys hear the world's tiniest violin playing for the dude that'll be running around with 200 wpf and a 103 speed weapon? Maybe I don't want to drop power throw after all; because a lucky spear to the head will probably be my only chance to kill him now. His Liuyedao will have a higher effective speed than a Rondel Dagger wielded with 1wpf.

P.S.-San, what helmet will you wear once you have 15 str?

Cause, that's basically more or less full scale respec. My change(and his) are to allow people who put to much, one way or the other, to actually get BACK their skills. What you're asking for is, essentially a repec out of Class 1 into class 2.

My point is that over half the player base effectively get a full scale respec anyway (you can switch from any pure melee class to almost anything else, and from xbow to almost anything else). So the strength 2h that have dominated the game for years get to adopt the latest flavor of the month build for free, while classes that are already weaker (melee+ranged hybrids) have no choice other than a slightly worse version of what they were before. Using this opportunity to allow melee+ranged hybrids to dump their secondary role cuts down on the overall amount of ranged (which I think everyone wants), while allowing people to escape builds that are potentially screwed up by this patch.

[ShinySpoons]

My plans for a 1h primary/pole/thrower arabian cav hybrid will finally come into fruition! mwuahahahaha