WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)

[chesterotab]

Thanks for explaining Ty, I appreciate it.

This is very disappointing for me though since the only thing that kept me engaged in this game for this long was my variety in play styles (together with my thousand alts). If I am being forced to cut down to a simpler build it will take a lot of the fun out of it for me.

Plus in general, the nerf for hybrids seems like it would lead to a simplification in the game with less "class" variety. Is there no way to make the changes without hybrids being negatively affected? If you ask me, diversification should even be buffed, since it sacrifices the min/maxing capabilities of more dedicated "classes". It is also more team oriented to play as a hybrid, since you can switch to whatever role your team is lacking during a battle.

Any way to address this?

So much this. Once I can +1 on the forums, I am coming back to rep this post. It's like the devs want everyone to go pure 2h longsword, pure pole awlpike, or pure 1h espada. grim

[XyNox]

Questions:

1.) As some ( pure ) ranged builds may end up with more wpf than before, while others ( hybrid ) will possibly end up with less, what factor will this "ranged accuracy nerf" be based on ? Will it be case sensitive ( ie. accuracy simply doesnt scale as much as before with high end wpf levels ) so only the people, who actually have very high single wpf get an accuracy rework or will it be a blanket ranged nerf, even though that would mean some ranged hybrids may end up being nerfed twice with this patch ?

2.) Since all classes with high agi and pure builds will get buffed with this patch, not only ranged, why do devs even feel the need to nerf ranged as "compensation" in the first place ?

[Rebelyell]

remove dmg from WPF and we are fine

[Segd]

XBow accuracy caps fairly low, actually. I'm fairly sure she's already at the accuracy cap with her current build, assuming she hasn't changed it recently.

190 for mw arbalest. Still not a dot though.

[Templar_Steevee]

remove dmg from WPF and we are fine

But for all clases not only ranged.
WPF  should affect only accuracy and speed, not dmg.

[Tydeus]

190 for mw arbalest. Still not a dot though.

Like I said, it caps fairly low.

Questions:

1.) As some ( pure ) ranged builds may end up with more wpf than before, while others ( hybrid ) will possibly end up with less, what factor will this "ranged accuracy nerf" be based on ? Will it be case sensitive ( ie. accuracy simply doesnt scale as much as before with high end wpf levels ) so only the people, who actually have very high single wpf get an accuracy rework or will it be a blanket ranged nerf, even though that would mean some ranged hybrids may end up being nerfed twice with this patch ?

2.) Since all classes with high agi and pure builds will get buffed with this patch, not only ranged, why do devs even feel the need to nerf ranged as "compensation" in the first place ?

1) Not all ranged is getting 'buffed' by this rework, and for the ranged that is getting buffed, the effects aren't exactly the same.
2) Because certain weapons get much better rewards from the wpf increase than others and this isn't something desirable for all cases. Melee weapon nerfs and buffs are planned as well.

remove dmg from WPF and we are fine

But for all clases not only ranged.
WPF  should affect only accuracy and speed, not dmg.

Tested this already with Urist's archery damage calculator.

So if for an 18/27 6PD 9WM archer you think 1.4 (61.30 to 62.69) more raw(meaning you can expect the actual difference to be cut down to half a point after armor) damage is a large difference, then sure. Huge buff. Keep in mind this is 1/3 of the damage you'd gain if we buffed ammo or bows by 1 damage, or 1/6 of what you'd gain by adding 3 more str and 1 more PD. 

Damage really isn't going to be affected much for builds we commonly see. The above is an archer build maximizing the wpf increase, but even there, the results are minimal.

[Gurnisson]

190 for mw arbalest. Still not a dot though.

181 wpf in rags back in the days when I was crossbow on my main. I miss that!

(click to show/hide)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

[Elindor]

Seen some people mention two things:

- Make strength requirements for different heavy items (heavy armor, etc) higher
- Separate ranged wpf and melee wpf but they both draw from the same pool
- Put a cap on a single wpf, let's say 180 (arbitrary), then you can make wpf more effective, and not worry about people becoming OP...this would also hurt hyrbids less

Just some things I thought were interesting and possibly good ideas.

Definitely glad we removed free wpf though...now we just need to make sure that not having enough makes you actually *SLOW* without (on the other end) making those with a bunch so fast that they break the servers.

My natural tendency towards a balanced build is pleased with this change overall though I had been forced to go more STR (27/15) since everyone else had, so this will be nice...(probably going either 24/18 or 21/21 ....am lvl 34)

[Rebelyell]

Like I said, it caps fairly low.1) Not all ranged is getting 'buffed' by this rework, and for the ranged that is getting buffed, the effects aren't exactly the same.
2) Because certain weapons get much better rewards from the wpf increase than others and this isn't something desirable for all cases. Melee weapon nerfs and buffs are planned as well.
Damage really isn't going to be affected much for builds we commonly see. The above is an archer build maximizing the wpf increase, but even there, the results are minimal.

pure agi players with rondel have some around 190 wpf( will have over 200)
1ps from 3 str + 2 from WPF(if I remember correctly 100 wpf = 1ps)= 3ps
with super high speed bonus we have really high dmg

that change will bring small change to dmg but players will be able to feel difference

[Algarn]

Please... The game is currently balanced enough to have fun, and the class you play doesn't matter. After this patch, hybrids will die, with all str biased builds (guys like Mendro, Butan, Nikodin etc will have to respec to another build, which will make those play styles die) .  And you will buff every guy with 21 agi, aka archers, lancers, rondelmy old friends , ninjas, etc ... -> already pretty annoying.

Having a new formula is fucking cool, but not in this way ... both agi and str should get advantages. As Stevee said, damages from WPF should be removed or nerfed to avoid another nerf, but this time on ranged's accuracy and speed.

Btw , nerf rondels, with or without new formula.

[Rebelyell]

Please... The game is currently balanced enough to have fun, and the class you play doesn't matter. After this patch, hybrids will die, with all str biased builds (guys like Mendro, Butan, Nikodin etc will have to respec to another build, which will make those play styles die) .  And you will buff every guy with 21 agi, aka archers, lancers, rondelmy old friends , ninjas, etc ...

Having a new formula is fucking cool, but not in this way ... both agi and str should get advantages. As Bobby said, damages from WPF should be removed or nerfed to avoid another nerf, but this time on ranged's accuracy and speed.

Stevee posted that 6 pages ago but everyone ignore archers sooo..

[Algarn]

Didn't read every page of this thread, blame me :l

[Molly]

[...]ninjas, etc ... -> already pretty annoying.[...]

Hey!

[Tydeus]

pure agi players with rondel have some around 190 wpf( will have over 200)
1ps from 3 str + 2 from WPF(if I remember correctly 100 wpf = 1ps)= 3ps
with super high speed bonus we have really high dmg

that change will bring small change to dmg but players will be able to feel difference

You missed the multiple posts from myself and others where I said weapons(particularly the rondel dagger) was getting nerfed. Both in speed, and in damage.

[CrazyCracka420]

I've got 6 WM on a pretty balanced build, so this will not affect me at all.  That being said, I think this is going to hurt people who have full str, no WM in their high level builds. 

I think this is a much needed change, I just think without a decent respec for these people, it will really fuck them over.  I never thought you should get free WPF when you level, only when you put some points into Agility or WM.

Thanks for the change, but like all the other major game play changes, this is going to really hurt people if they don't get a proper respec (looking at you riding difficulty changes! [which was a great change, but fucked people over on "final" builds without a proper respec]).