WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)

[Life]

XBow accuracy caps fairly low, actually. I'm fairly sure she's already at the accuracy cap with her current build, assuming she hasn't changed it recently.

what is the xbow wpf cap at? just need a number (180?). also, whens this rework supposed to be implemented?

[Hobb]

I'm confused, we are getting a WPP respec? -6 str points, and -6 skill points that can only be used for retracting strength based skills?

[Pentecost]

Indeed, what does sadden me, is that low-medium WM hybrids with 1:1, 1:1:1, or some similar wpf splits will be hurt. Unfortunately there isn't a way to keep both of these two where they are. When one type of split gets better the other gets worse. The high ratio splits (2:1 or greater) remain the more important of the types and therefore were chosen to be what was catered to. Most important, because we want archers and crossbowers and especially throwers, to be able(to want) to melee.

Are you saying it's not desirable to adjust the wpf cost curve so that costs at the lower end of wpf (say, sub 100) decrease while the costs at the upper end of wpf (160+) increase? It's not as though it would subvert what you're trying to do here--the current changes will force people to buy WM regardless--and doing so would address some of the concerns presented here in this thread. Tweaking the cost curve would:

1.) Artificially limit the amount of wpf that minmaxers can stack
2.) Allow ranged to have some melee capability while keeping them from shooting lasers
3.) Not unduly penalize melee who have evenly split proficiencies
4.) Lessen some of the pains associated with this change for people who have builds that are poorly optimized for the rework but are otherwise relatively normal (ie not 36/3)

If you think this has some merit, I would be willing to offer more specific input about just how exactly the cost curve should be modified.

[Tydeus]

I'm confused, we are getting a WPP respec? -6 str points, and -6 skill points that can only be used for retracting strength based skills?

At the current moment, with nothing relating to this area having been changed(yet) after the the OP was created, this is how it will work.

The patch will come out and people will log in to begin playing. They will then notice they have 6 more attributes that they can spend and 6 less str than what they had before. They will also notice that any skill points they had that would have required higher values of str than what they currently(the moment after the patch goes live) have, were also refunded. So 18str and 6 powerstrike and 6 iron flesh gets turned into 12 str, 4 powerstrike, 4 iron flesh and you're credited the points.

Edit: Corrected*

[dynamike]

1:1 split wpf hybrids will have about 5% less wpf in each type. a 50/150 split or a 90/170 is basically the same as what they have now.

Tydeus, can you help me understand how this change will affect special cases like myself? I am playing as a triple WPF hybrid (2hd, pole, xbow) with maxed out WM, the bare minimum of WPF points in every section and evenly distributed points:

Level 34

Attribute points:0
Strength:21
Agility:18
Weapon points:1

One Handed:1
Two Handed:101
Polearm:101
Throwing:1
Crossbow:108
Archery:1

Skill points:0
Weapon Master:6
Athletics:6
Riding:6
Iron Flesh:7
Shield:3
Horse Archery:0
Power Strike:7
Power Draw:0
Power Throw:0

My build is already not very viable in any particular "class", but the diversity of it allows for adaptability in different maps and keeps it interesting for me to play. Would be a shame if I had to give this up...

In general I applaud the long over due changes though! Keep up the good work! 

[Macropus]

So 18str and 6 agility and 6 riding gets turned into 12 str, 4 agility, 4 riding and you're credited the points.

That's where I started being really confused.  Is that a typo or am I missing something?

I like this change in general.
Please note, that it's not much like agi builds get buffed, it's more like pure strength builds get nerfed.

[Utrakil]

At the current moment, with nothing relating to this area having been changed(yet) after the the OP was created, this is how it will work.

The patch will come out and people will log in to begin playing. They will then notice they have 6 more attributes that they can spend and 6 less str than what they had before. They will also notice that any skill points they had that would have required higher values of str than what they currently(the moment after the patch goes live) have, were also refunded. So 18str and 6 agility and 6 riding gets turned into 12 str, 4 agility, 4 riding and you're credited the points.

now you got me totally confused.
why suddenly 2 aggi are reduced and what has riding to do with str??

[Tydeus]

(click to show/hide)

Tydeus, can you help me understand how this change will affect special cases like myself? I am playing as a triple WPF hybrid (2hd, pole, xbow) with maxed out WM, the bare minimum of WPF points in every section and evenly distributed points:

Level 34

Attribute points:0
Strength:21
Agility:18
Weapon points:1

One Handed:1
Two Handed:101
Polearm:101
Throwing:1
Crossbow:108
Archery:1

Skill points:0
Weapon Master:6
Athletics:6
Riding:6
Iron Flesh:7
Shield:3
Horse Archery:0
Power Strike:7
Power Draw:0
Power Throw:0

My build is already not very viable in any particular "class", but the diversity of it allows for adaptability in different maps and keeps it interesting for me to play. Would be a shame if I had to give this up...

In general I applaud the long over due changes though! Keep up the good work! 

You're level 34 you suffer a penalty basically(removal of free wpf based on level), but you've also got that triple hybrid build, so the numbers aren't going to be pretty.

Here are what some of the possible splits would look like.

88/88/88
82/82/98
75/75/108

Lowering STR by 3 and getting one more WM gives...

99/100/100
95/95/108
88/88/118

For the sake of upkeep though, I'd consider making sure your highest effective melee wpf stays above 100.

now you got me totally confused.
why suddenly 2 aggi are reduced and what has riding to do with str??

Haha, very sorry. I corrected it.

That's where I started being really confused.  Is that a typo or am I missing something?

Yeah, that was a typo, very sorry.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

Sounds exciting.

[Elindor]

The 6 STR refund might be a bit too little for some high level players.  Doesn't necessarily justify changing it...just thought I'd point that out.

For me personally it's probably enough - but again just wanted to bring this up.

[Phew]

The 6 STR refund might be a bit too little for some high level players.  Doesn't necessarily justify changing it...just thought I'd point that out.

For me personally it's probably enough - but again just wanted to bring this up.

Plumbo, allers, etc are just going to keep their 39/3 builds anyway, so it probably doesn't matter.

[Algarn]

This patch is butan's death. GIVE HIM A FREE RESPEC, YOU MONSTERS !

[Leshma]

More agi builds? ok...

Maybe if battle is only game mode you play. On siege there're definitely more str builds. But none of those are important when it comes to cRPG balance. Strategus is what they balance for and in strategus everyone is str build with ton of HP and in plate most of the time.

[Prpavi]

Maybe if battle is only game mode you play. On siege there're definitely more str builds. But none of those are important when it comes to cRPG balance. Strategus is what they balance for and in strategus everyone is str build with ton of HP and in plate most of the time.

Indeed, I only whore Battle since it's the only mode I really enjoy, never cared much for Strat, Siege gets borring after 20 mins.

[Jarlek]

You're level 34 you suffer a penalty basically(removal of free wpf based on level), but you've also got that triple hybrid build, so the numbers aren't going to be pretty.

Here are what some of the possible splits would look like.

88/88/88
82/82/98
75/75/108

Lowering STR by 3 and getting one more WM gives...

99/100/100
95/95/108
88/88/118

For the sake of upkeep though, I'd consider making sure your highest effective melee wpf stays above 100.
Haha, very sorry. I corrected it.Yeah, that was a typo, very sorry.

Wait, WHAT!?!?!?

Currently with 18 agi, 6 WM you can have 100 wpf in 3 different types at lvl 30.

With the new system, you would get 88 in 3 with 6 Wm and 18 AGI (as you said) and 99/100/100 with 7 WM and 21 AGI.

Why fucking over hybrids so much? 1 more WM in new system will be needed for the same wpf levels for current equal-split hybrids.

I like the change for the Str-vs-Agi balance, but come on, why keep fucking over hybrids? The worst is that the "semi-hybrids" who go 150/50 will stay the same (according to my understanding) while equal-split hybrids will be punished more. Not cool, man.

EDIT: Yeah, I know it's not a big difference, but considering pure builds with 7 WM get more wpf, while hybrids with 7 WM gets less. There's almost no one going hybrids already (especially melee hybrids) and further increasing the difference between hybrids&pure builds isn't exactly helping the battlefield diversity.