WPP Sum and Cost Formula Rework(Includes WM)

[Tydeus]

now desire is going to headshot me more. I don't like this patch.

XBow accuracy caps fairly low, actually. I'm fairly sure she's already at the accuracy cap with her current build, assuming she hasn't changed it recently.

[Torben]

I am a balanced build and not biased.

however I will miss the pure strength builds,  lessening diversity is always a sad thing imo. 
also high agi builds are crazy effective atm,  and are getting an undeserved buff.


I would have preferred another path to even the ground of agi/str discrepancy (armor weight penalty reduction with increased agi for instance),  but am thankful non the less of you guys working on it ofc.

[wayyyyyne]

edit: nvm

[San]

I'm getting absurdly buffed. My main is 18/27 with 9WM.

I saw something like this coming, so I tried to suggest a workaround to getting tons of wpf where armor reduces the same amount of wpf at any point so high wpf builds can use a good 5-10 extra points and low wpf builds lose 5-10 points. It was my second time suggesting it much earlier than the date in the link. I guess we'll see how giving me 200wpf pans out.

[Teeth]

Makes me kinda sad that this makes full strength builds somewhat unviable, although that just makes sense seeing as 3/36 is a fairly crappy build as well. I wasn't really too convinced anymore that there is a STR/AGI unbalance as I always lean towards balanced builds or even slightly more AGI builds. The change seems properly proportioned though and I welcome a wpf respec so I can finally hybridize more properly to a 1h/polearm build. Good job, had to be done. The only thing that really worries me is that the average crossbow build is gonna have more wpf, I think it is high time crossbow requires a little more than just wpf.

I assume that I as a level 35 with 7 WM will end up with less wpf than before because of the comparatively high wpf bonus I had from levels?

[Tydeus]

I am a balanced build and not biased.

however I will miss the pure strength builds,  lessening diversity is always a sad thing imo. 
also high agi builds are crazy effective atm,  and are getting an undeserved buff.


I would have preferred another path to even the ground of agi/str discrepancy (armor weight penalty reduction with increased agi for instance),  but am thankful non the less of you guys working on it ofc.

There's an interesting relationship between str builds and agility builds which seems to dictate that the more agility builds you get on a server, the better str builds become (not talking about 21/18 or 18/21 builds). Since hp and damage is tied to str, that means str builds have more opponents they only have to hit a couple of times, if not only once, to kill. Meanwhile, with so many agility builds, there are few builds that can do significant damage to you as well. If you look at group fights, str is pretty much the dominant stat, because movement plays less of a role. Unfortunately, there's not really any reason to believe the opposite is true, although it might be, it's certainly not as significant.

I'm getting absurdly buffed. My main is 18/27 with 9WM.

I saw something like this coming, so I tried to suggest a workaround to getting tons of wpf where armor reduces the same amount of wpf at any point so high wpf builds can use a good 5-10 extra points and low wpf builds lose 5-10 points. It was my second time suggesting it much earlier than the date in the link. I guess we'll see how giving me 200wpf pans out.

What's interesting San, is that EU players wear a hell of a lot more armor than NA does, but they're also supposed to have more agility. Forgetting the agility part, more armor on na would nerf your build quite a bit, regardless of the wpf buff. You'd have to switch back to the steel pick.

[Grumpy_Nic]

instead of applying this patch you could use the classes from native to limit choices. with that also team balance would be easier to pull off

[Molly]

Sounds nice.

[Osiris]

So what does the change look like? For starters, free wpf from leveling has been removed. Second, the new base wpp (weapon proficiency point) allows for 20 wpf (weapon proficiency) in a single weapon type

20 wpf in a single weapon type <--- does that mean we cant put individual points into types? so i cant say put 10 into 1h then 10 into pole they all have to go 1h from that wpm?

[Apsod]

Hell yes, add this shit now please! I am so tired of the servers being dominated by boring strength builds.

[San]

What's interesting San, is that EU players wear a hell of a lot more armor than NA does, but they're also supposed to have more agility. Forgetting the agility part, more armor on na would nerf your build quite a bit, regardless of the wpf buff. You'd have to switch back to the steel pick.

I don't think I read what you said correctly. Do you mean more armor after your change? I calculated it and I could wear 6 weight more body armor and get the same effective wpf as I have now. That's a good 9-10 increase in body armor. My suggestion, you get anywhere from 1-10 points back if you have over 140 wpf in the same gear loadout. I just have no idea if they can change such formulas so I just wanted people to keep in mind possible alternatives to raising the wpf cap. My build uses a fast sword and a mace sidearm regardless, so no need to worry about me 

An interesting thing about your change is that 3WM >= 3Strength + 1PS all the way up to 10WM (before it was like 5-7WM). My 18/27 build would do similar amounts of damage as a 21/18 build with more noticeable differences at lower WM (ex. 21/15 vs 18/24). It seems WM is essential to getting good damage now. Although there are "diminishing" (still better than current rate) returns as your WM reaches very high levels, that means that 3-5 PS builds are going to hit pretty dang hard now before factoring in speed and hold(faster = easier to get holds) bonuses.

[Falka]

I assume that I as a level 35 with 7 WM will end up with less wpf than before because of the comparatively high wpf bonus I had from levels?

Now you have 168 wpf, after patch you will get 170, so no.

[Utrakil]

Now with that out of the way, we can get to the part where we want the community’s input. Of course there is the obvious “what do you think of the change?” but what we’re more interested in, is what you believe the minimal reimbursement would be for implementing this. We believe what would be most appropriate is reimbursing something like 6 Strength attributes and however many skill points that amounts to(This is currently the plan).

All responses and critiques appreciated(Aside from grammatical ones). Thanks for reading.

Edit 1: I guess I forgot to state this, but your wpf will be reset.

I would like to see a couple of aggi attributes and their skill points to be reimbursed as well. Because with the new formula it might be usefull to play around with aggi skills as well.

[korppis]

I am a balanced build and not biased.

however I will miss the pure strength builds,  lessening diversity is always a sad thing imo. 
also high agi builds are crazy effective atm,  and are getting an undeserved buff.


I would have preferred another path to even the ground of agi/str discrepancy (armor weight penalty reduction with increased agi for instance),  but am thankful non the less of you guys working on it ofc.

Seems to me that new "pure" strength builds will be needing 12 agi to get enough wpf (~120). It's not so bad really, they will still have plenty left for str.

Overall this looks good. One could make better melee hybrids with builds like 15/21+, which increases diversity.

[Falka]

reimbursing something like 6 Strength attributes and however many skill points that amounts to(This is currently the plan).

Edit 1: I guess I forgot to state this, but your wpf will be reset.

So instead of 27-18 1h I can have my old 21-24 2h? Cool 

Btw, now, when there will be mini respec increase difficulty of xbows, so that arbalest require 18 str. No harm done this way