Whats up with the kicks? Going to be fixed ever?

[Legs]

To elaborate on the point that I was trying to make earlier in the thread:

The average skill level in cRPG rose to the point where kicking became fairly common.
As a result, people started complaining because they were getting kicked when they hadn't been previously.
So, kicks were nerfed and people stopped using them for a while.
Eventually the community adapted to the nerf and started using kicks again.
Naturally, the complaints also started coming in alongside.
Even if the AoE effect is removed, the community will adapt and continue kicking you in the nuts at every opportunity.

It seems like most of the anti-kicking crowd are 1-handers who just want kicks to be removed, or to be nerfed so hard that they're totally unusable.

I can understand being frustrated if you carefully time a dodge and avoid your opponent's kick only to move in and get hit by an afterimage, but that's really just anecdotal and doesn't necessarily speak to the core issue. For example - maybe the problem is with strength builds being too tanky. Someone with 70 armor and 10 iron flesh could just spam and try to get lucky chamber-blocks because he knows that even if they miss he can always just block with his face instead. So do you call that a problem with chamber blocking, or with armor, or with iron flesh/str hp passive?

So, I guess my point is that this isn't as simple as saying "KICKS OP NERF PLS."

[Matey]

To elaborate on the point that I was trying to make earlier in the thread:

The average skill level in cRPG rose to the point where kicking became fairly common.
As a result, people started complaining because they were getting kicked when they hadn't been previously.
So, kicks were nerfed and people stopped using them for a while.
Eventually the community adapted to the nerf and started using kicks again.
Naturally, the complaints also started coming in alongside.
Even if the AoE effect is removed, the community will adapt and continue kicking you in the nuts at every opportunity.

It seems like most of the anti-kicking crowd are 1-handers who just want kicks to be removed, or to be nerfed so hard that they're totally unusable.

I can understand being frustrated if you carefully time a dodge and avoid your opponent's kick only to move in and get hit by an afterimage, but that's really just anecdotal and doesn't necessarily speak to the core issue. For example - maybe the problem is with strength builds being too tanky. Someone with 70 armor and 10 iron flesh could just spam and try to get lucky chamber-blocks because he knows that even if they miss he can always just block with his face instead. So do you call that a problem with chamber blocking, or with armor, or with iron flesh/str hp passive?

So, I guess my point is that this isn't as simple as saying "KICKS OP NERF PLS."

but kicks are only OP cause they are broken. if they only hit where the foot was when it was extending... then it would be fine.. that would mean if you get kicked its your own fault. right now you can get kicked at no fault of your own and it is much too easy for 2hs to do.

[San]

The average skill level in cRPG rose to the point where kicking became fairly common.

This is where opinions differ, right from the beginning. I don't think average skill has reached Marcus/Rhaelys levels of pre-change kicking.

[Scervo]

Well, as someone who is somewhat new to the game, kicks are too hard for me to land so I basically never use them.. Other people make it look OP. So I would probably agree with legs and say its not really OP in itself, people have just gotten really good at using them.

If you miss you're basically a sitting duck; you're risking a free hit on yourself for a free hit on the opponent, seems fair to me.

[Jarold]

I'm ok with the kicks in game, and I barely use them! I've learned which players use kicks a lot and it's easy to avoid them. The real way to avoid all kicks is to not move in such a predictable line, which all of us do and it's hard to think about.

[MURDERTRON]

I'm ok with the kicks in game, and I barely use them! I've learned which players use kicks a lot and it's easy to avoid them. The real way to avoid all kicks is to not move in such a predictable line, which all of us do and it's hard to think about.

Yea, its pretty obvious.  If you're showing a left swing, you're probably going to move right.  If you're showing a right swing, you're probably going to move left.  Basically, kicks take advantage of the fact that most players try to increase their speed bonus.  But that's predictable.

[Kafein]

All kicks take advantage of the fact that players using short weapons are forced to move in very predictable fashion unless they don't want to hit. Stellar footwork isn't going to change that. Hell, a quick tap on the jump key helps a lot more.

[Simon_Templar]

For me it sounds like it goes into the right direction. You would have less prima ballerina kickers.

[CrazyCracka420]

There is a lot of exaggeration on the actual zone of effect of kicks.


Its very easy to miss, and everytime you do you give a free hit to your opponent.
When you dont, you have a free hit for yourself.
Seems fair.

That's not true if you're chasing someone.  I will strafe left and right as I try to close in on the guy.  In the past they would kick, and I could still come at them from a 45 degree angle and punish them for missing the kick.  Now I don't even bother trying because the area of effect is likely to snag you after the foot animation has even stopped moving (when it used to no longer be active).  If you're approaching someone from any part of their front when they have kicked, you're likely going to be kicked (even if you're basically off to their side). 

I've still yet to see anyone properly explain their justification for thinking that an area of effect is acceptable for a kick animation.  Legs argument is that I'd get kicked anyways.  That's some great argumentative skills you got there.

Legs

It seems like most of the anti-kicking crowd are 1-handers who just want kicks to be removed, or to be nerfed so hard that they're totally unusable

Umm..where did I say I want kicks removed, or totally unuseable?  I just don't want to be punished for trying to take advantage of someone missing a kick, and I walk into some magic whirlwind bullshit and get knocked back.  Are you that dense that you can't read what people's actual problems with the current kick are?  Instead of trying to tell us what our problems with the kick are, maybe you should like, I dunno, read what we're saying?