Suggestions to re-balance throwing.

[Loki]

HAHAHA this is hilarious.

[Seawied]

If I could, I would honestly give you a +10. Perhaps a friendly reach-around instead?

What developer came up with this idea of "balancing" throwing? They should be kicked off the balance team.

[LLJK_Korea1]

Sup bro

Love your comics

Feel your pain

Supportin'.

[Gamerofthegame]

The whole thing seems a bit silly.

2 handers and certain pole arms completely supersede everyone else. Bowmen can't really do much damage to people with armor and take a bit before they become accurate, player skill aside. Crossbows do quite a bit of hurting but are pretty damn expensive, however amusingly they don't need much to become 'reasonably' accurate as a throw away weapon, not needing any skills or anything, so the higher level people that have the money to spare use it as a side arm thing if they can and further increase the gap. Throwing, meanwhile... Well. Throwing isn't even a thing anymore.

To even use throwing stuff you need to set some points in power throw, additionally needing WPF to make it reasonably accurate and, now, even work.

Shield users are stuck at a bit of a impasse, where their shield they invested into tends to break apart until they're at later levels and, regardless, don't really have the speed to even manage at all against 2 handers and certain polearms, making their primary advantage being fairly impervious against the weak ranged... Which... Isn't much of a advantage.

It's all weird. I personally believe the balance wagon needs to shift somewhere else - Like making AGI actually worthwhile, for instance, maybe making STR hard hitting, stead fast and AGI actually, you know, swing faster then their speedy STR counterparts. Or something, I don't know.

But throwing? God damn, man.

[Philoctetes]

I tried throwing for a bit on an old character and compared to archery it was damn hard.  If this new patch made it even worse, they have to reconsider what they consider balance.

As an archer it is damn hard for me to take down full-plate helicopters, and anything able to make them hesitate for a few seconds should not be taken out of the game.  Plus this comic alone should be convincing enough.

[Mannhammer]

Great comic.

The sad thing about all the "balancing" that goes into cRPG is that it never balances the game. 2H/polearm tincans builds always top the Kill board partly because they are the only build that has never been nerfed.
Or am I wrong on this?
I can't think of one cRPG update that has only affected these builds.

[Native_ATS]

even if they fixed throwing, you would still have to grind all over again to throw... i wouldnt mind if they fixed throwing but ugh 

[Beans]

I think the best thing for throwing is to reverse the changes to throwing size(increase most throwing stacks) and also slightly increase the requirement for them. Some of the changes are cool, and I like the idea that someone can do a viking style character with some throwing axes for a 3-4 level investment.

The biggest problem before was everyone was picking up 3-4 points in power throw and just chucking shit everywhere and it was insane.  This kind of alternate bonus weapon shouldn't happen without some kind of choice. I think that 1-3 powerthrow should be an acceptable choice as an alternate weapon given the current slot system, but past 3(or maybe 4 or even 5)powerthrow should be a legit build on its own. It is low accuracy, low range, and low ammo even before the current changes.

Part of the patch I do agree with and that is having powerthrow 5 give throwing spears which have 4 per stack which is cool. But at 2 slots you can only have 1 stack without being a joke. Even archers are able to carry an alternate 1 slot weapon.


I think the throwing weapons after powerthrow 5 should give a larger amount of ammo(8 per 2 slots). Thats if we keep the current wpf=pt ratio.

Great comic.

The sad thing about all the "balancing" that goes into cRPG is that it never balances the game. 2H/polearm tincans builds always top the Kill board partly because they are the only build that has never been nerfed.
Or am I wrong on this?
I can't think of one cRPG update that has only affected these builds.

The last few patches increase the cost dramatically on the top end 2h and pole weapons. These types of characters tend to stand out as the bullshit classes because a lot of really good players play them and because they dominate when they roll high end gear.

[PhantomZero]

Yeah, I agree with beans. Increase throwing weapon capacities, including heirlooms, in fact that could be the only thing heirlooms do to balance it out I guess, carry your dad's extra large bag of spears around, and leave the WPF requirements in.

This way, it forces people to take some weaponmastery to throw as well as more or less balanced str/agi. This will allow pure throwers to be effective anti-armor units, while preventing 2h and others from simply spending a few points into power throw to grab enough for some axes and javelins with their two extra slots.

If throwers want to use some of their weapon mastery to specialize in a different discipline, they can, and be mediocre at each, or become a good thrower.

[Tydeus]

I really thought the 14 wpf per PT was a cool system to help keep throwing damage in check. I also don't think this requirement is where balance problems lie at all. It seems to me that 6 jarids for 4 slots might be just a little low, considering you'd have to use a zero slot melee to get the 6 jarids.

I like the idea of dedicated throwers being dead. I know a few really skilled people that stopped playing battle altogether because of the range fest that took place before the throwing changes. It removes the enjoyment of melee, not because now melee is left unchecked(which it isn't, thanks to the longbow and fewer cav predators), but before they even get near their opponent they could get double body shot by ranged and die with a build that was meant to take hits. They're body shots, not headshots, it doesn't really take any skill at all to pull off a body shot.

[Mendro]

Before 0.220 i got 12 javelins with my 2h weapons , now only 3 javelins.
I was happy with 6 javelins , cause nerf throwing was necessary , but now only 3 javelins is useless. A pure 2handers guy pown me in duel , cause i use some skills and wpf in throwing for trying to kill cav or HA. So why this new nerf?

Ps: Sorry for my poor english :p

[Vibe]

Fantastic comic

[PhantomZero]

I really thought the 14 wpf per PT was a cool system to help keep throwing damage in check. I also don't think this requirement is where balance problems lie at all. It seems to me that 6 jarids for 4 slots might be just a little low, considering you'd have to use a zero slot melee to get the 6 jarids.

I like the idea of dedicated throwers being dead. I know a few really skilled people that stopped playing battle altogether because of the range fest that took place before the throwing changes. It removes the enjoyment of melee, not because now melee is left unchecked(which it isn't, thanks to the longbow and fewer cav predators), but before they even get near their opponent they could get double body shot by ranged and die with a build that was meant to take hits. They're body shots, not headshots, it doesn't really take any skill at all to pull off a body shot.

If they are meant to take hits, why are they able to dish out so much damage? They shouldn't be unstoppable paragons of the battlefield, cheapshot may elect to post his other comic about this. If you are tired of being shot by arrows and being hit by javelins, grab a shield, or partner up with a 1H buddy. Assuming as you say, a double body shot kills, and you have 14 javelins, thats only 7 kills.  A hard maximum of 7 kills assuming you don't miss or waste one into a shield. While 2H tanks can run around and score 10+ in a single round. Cavalry is no different, but if a cavalry is dismounted, he is typically about to be very dead. People like Goretooth and your self can simply shrug off lesser ranged weapons with your triple loomed armors and carry a pike to defend against cavalry.

What exactly are people supposed to use to defend against 2H? More 2h? Swarm tactics?

Why does everyone feel the need to be able to solo everyone else in the game?

[Tydeus]

If they are meant to take hits, why are they able to dish out so much damage? They shouldn't be unstoppable paragons of the battlefield, cheapshot may elect to post his other comic about this. If you are tired of being shot by arrows and being hit by javelins, grab a shield, or partner up with a 1H buddy.

Why does everyone feel the need to be able to solo everyone else in the game?

Sounds like you're questioning quite a few things, such as the effectiveness of the STR stat which allows people to get BOTH IF and PS, or the weight penalty only reducing roughly 30-40 wpf for full plate(wpf affects damage). I was merely pointing out that even with 10 IF and 80 armor, you could still get 2 shot by jarids with the old patch. I didn't state anything about PS. For all you know, I could have had 0 PS and converted all my skills to attributes so I could get extra athletics.

[Cheap_Shot]

Throwing isn't "easy". The horrible accuracy and limited ammo mean every shot has to count. I would argue that being a pure thrower is the most difficult playstyle in the game. You cant wear much armor at all, especially since the wpf requirement was increased, but you have to get in close to combat. You cant take a backup weapon to defend yourself with unlike other ranged classes because of the slot increase. You now have to dedicate all your wpf to throwing so when you quickly run out, you cant just pick up a fallen weapon and defend yourself. You cant even put points into polearms and use the higher tier throwing weapons alternate melee mode effectively (if you could ever call any of those weapons effective at melee(no you couldn't)). The risk is much higher then other ranged builds, but the amount of point investment to make it effective is ridiculously higher now as well. It just doesn't make sense from any angle except people throw a tantrum when a throwing weapon kills them.

You may swear at me when my throwing weapon kills you and say "cheap shot", except its the most expensive shot in the game. You don't like dieing when two throwing spears hit you? Well I don't like being destroyed in two hits by a bec or a two hander, half a min into the game, when my throwing weapons have already run out and I'm unarmed and can't do anything. You could still be alive by paying attention. What am I supposed to do?