Author Topic: Crossbow heirlooming.  (Read 12575 times)

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Offline TomMyyY

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Crossbow heirlooming.
« on: May 13, 2011, 02:49:53 am »
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I like the fact that the devs balanced the heirlooming a bit concerning horses and shields, but the heirloomed stats on crossbows + bolts are insane.

Here the stats of arbalest and steel bolts normal/MW.

Arbalest
missile speed: 60
weight: 3.8
accuracy: 96
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 18
missile speed: 60
max ammo: 1
thrust damage: 79 pierce

missile speed: 64 (+4)
weight: 3.8
accuracy: 99 (+3)
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 21 (+3)
missile speed: 64 (+4)
max ammo: 1
thrust damage: 87 pierce (+8?!?)


Steel Bolts
weapon length: 63
weight: 2.3
weapon length: 63
max ammo: 12
thrust damage: 8 pierce
slots: 1

weapon length: 63
weight: 2.3
weapon length: 63
max ammo: 13 (+1)
thrust damage: 13 pierce (+5)

slots: 1

So in the end you get a massive +13 damage and substantial increases in all the other stats as well, these increases are the same for every crossbow.

Is it just me or is this way over the top?

Offline Rebelyell

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Re: Crossbow heirlooming.
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2011, 02:58:29 am »
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agree....
that damage...
and yes i have that mw xbow and bolts....

and don't complain about cost of that xbow...
i have 97 000 gold on my graveflower char....

100 damage who can survive that????? 

i know not you... and me and tomyyY and he and....

that all nerfs but
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Offline Trael

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Re: Crossbow heirlooming.
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2011, 03:46:16 am »
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I like the fact that the devs balanced the heirlooming a bit concerning horses and shields, but the heirloomed stats on crossbows + bolts are insane.

Here the stats of arbalest and steel bolts normal/MW.

Arbalest
missile speed: 60
weight: 3.8
accuracy: 96
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 18
missile speed: 60
max ammo: 1
thrust damage: 79 pierce

missile speed: 64 (+4)
weight: 3.8
accuracy: 99 (+3)
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 21 (+3)
missile speed: 64 (+4)
max ammo: 1
thrust damage: 87 pierce (+8?!?)


Steel Bolts
weapon length: 63
weight: 2.3
weapon length: 63
max ammo: 12
thrust damage: 8 pierce
slots: 1

weapon length: 63
weight: 2.3
weapon length: 63
max ammo: 13 (+1)
thrust damage: 13 pierce (+5)

slots: 1

So in the end you get a massive +13 damage and substantial increases in all the other stats as well, these increases are the same for every crossbow.

Is it just me or is this way over the top?

With all respect i would like to remind you to do math... Crossbows dont get bonus to damage or any stats (not counting reloadspeed and accuracy) from anything in game. PowerDraw archerbuild can get 100% damagebonus, meaning that if that one would get half bonus in his/her heirloom statraises, it still ends up being same ammount of added damage.

Sure boost is quite huge, but so is crossbows crappy without heirlooming at moment. Bolt speed is pretty much joke as atleast with lighter crossbows it feels more like placing bolt to hang mid air and hoping that someone runs into it.

What i personally would like to see would be slight reduction in crossbow base damage and making bolt speed and damage raise with wpf. so that builds really going for crossbow by putting wpf to it would have bolts flying with speed that would allow them to hit anything without needing to hope that they get lucky and someone dodges by change to their bolt hanging and slowly gliding throught air.

And before anyone goes saying "but thats not realistic, crossbow launches bolt at same speed as long as it is same crossbow lauching it, no matter who shoots it"... Newsflash: _SO DO BOWS IN REAL LIFE TOO_ :P no matter how much better someone is at aiming with bow, with same bow & arrow, they just cant make it fly faster. But still bows seem to get damage and projectile speed boost with wpf.

Would also solve whine about crossbows not needing any skillpoints, after that they would end up needing weaponmaster for user to get wpf points to get crossbows wpf up for them to get better.

wpf 1 crossbows could have lower damage and maybe even slightly lower projectilespeed to discourage "but people can use them as sidearms" whine and usage.

bottom point, ones putting wpf points in them would end up getting proper weapons with fast enough projectiles to even sometimes hit targets that are aware of them (unlike currently) and sidearmwhiners could be happy to know that they took less damage becouse user had no extra points of wpf in crossbows.

For some reference, when used in ranged duel, currently mastercraft lightcrossbow with 170 wpf can be used to duel slow archer, if timing of user is near perfect and acher has bad aim, as minimum time user needs to be stationary when reloading is just less that time archer needs to end shootinganimation and getting bow back up for next arrow. Wpf 170 needs some serious wm and dedication to crossbows with current system, also crossbows have str as req, so wpf boosted system would not cause them to be one attribute wonders. In addition things already cost more that bows (not that there is nothing wrong with that).

Crossbows currently are allright in other areas but projectile speed, atleast with lighter crossbows slow projectilespeed requires targets to be completely stationary (and not know your aiming at them) or shootingrange to be meleerange at maximum.

With heavier crossbows (arbalest and heavy crossbow) well i think kind of idea is that they can again sometimes oneshot someone with that heirloom progression, what other boost they could get or what else boost would have any idea in it. Becouse there isnt any multipliers applied to damage, 8 points ends up being something around 10% boost to damage max anyways, for arbalest that will cost much, take 2 slots (meaning only 1h melee or cheapest staff if one wants to shoot more that once with it), reload slowly (meaning in most events one wont end up shooting too many bolts with it), thanks to how movement is handled have extremely hard time hitting anything is targets are even half aware of shooter aiming at them (and thanks to long reloadtime dodging isnt nessessary for most of time, as crossbower will end up spending most of time reloading instead of aiming in normal conditions.) and as all projectileweapons (atleast on my computer) suffers from high rate of bolts just vanishing on impact with target player thanks to lag (sure all other projectileweapons have this atlast on me, but with bow thanks to high arrowstacks and high firerate its wont matter all that much). :P

Sure current meleeweapon heirloom bonuses are quite small and atleast comparing just purely numbers those are quite big looking, but cant say my masterwork lightcrossbow would be overpowered, atleast without heirlooms even 7 bolts wont bring blackarmor user down (thats highest i have been able to deliver to someone using black armor, in ultimate feat of accuracy and blackarmoruser just noticing "hey i simply dont need to dodge"), most leatherarmored targets are 2-4 hit frags and naked targets 2 hit kills (sure complete peasants die to 1 hit, but hey they get fragged even by other lvl1 peasant by 1 hit of peasantknife, same knife that will 100% bounce of anyone armored with anything costing 20gold or more for upkeep for couple more levels) :P

Edit: oh yeah, one of reasons i dont use heavier crossbows much anymore on my crossbow chars is that i got kind of fed up by nonheirloomed arbalest not being able to onehit kill even naked people running around exept quite rarely.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 03:47:47 am by Trael »

Offline Tomas_of_Miles

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Re: Crossbow heirlooming.
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2011, 04:24:46 am »
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I would like to say crossbows should not be tampered with anymore. They were fine before this buff. But now I think a lot of people are going to cotton onto this buff and overuse the crossbow. Then the crossbow will be nerfed. And balance will be shite again...
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Offline Tzar

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Re: Crossbow heirlooming.
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2011, 07:57:39 am »
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I agree everything got nerfed except crossbows its really smell like the dev use this sidearm

Also look at my suggestion thread about makeing the regular xbow 2 slots before everyone will be using that instead of the sniper...
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline Native_ATS

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Re: Crossbow heirlooming.
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2011, 09:13:41 am »
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I agree everything got nerfed except crossbows its really smell like the dev use this sidearm

Also look at my suggestion thread about makeing the regular xbow 2 slots before everyone will be using that instead of the sniper...
its bullshit, people cry about throwing, oh throwing needs to be nerffed into the ground cuz its too easy to throw, they can 1shot you... they do like 60p+pt damg so they do like 97p...
then they nerff throwing to shit and Buff the skill-less xbows.... now xbows can deal 100p, that shit can 1 shot you and it has better aim with 0wpf then throwing did at 100wpf  :rolleyes:

Offline Tzar

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Re: Crossbow heirlooming.
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2011, 09:18:02 am »
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its bullshit, people cry about throwing, oh throwing needs to be nerffed into the ground cuz its too easy to throw, they can 1shot you... they do like 60p+pt damg so they do like 97p...
then they nerff throwing to shit and Buff the skill-less xbows.... now xbows can deal 100p, that shit can 1 shot you and it has better aim with 0wpf then throwing did at 100wpf  :rolleyes:

1 thing i noticed so far in all the patches ect ect xbow users have a helping hand among the dev team... must be the only reason why they never nerf that shit weapon..

ANd yes the 2 slot did help but its not enough
I've never played a server where people split up as much or as often as on EU1.  No wonder range is having a field day.

Offline Native_ATS

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Re: Crossbow heirlooming.
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2011, 09:22:31 am »
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1 thing i noticed so far in all the patches ect ect xbow users have a helping hand among the dev team... must be the only reason why they never nerf that shit weapon..

ANd yes the 2 slot did help but its not enough
.... light xbow dose 68p, 1 slot....
all weapons take 2 slots... i dont count that as a nerff....

Offline Rebelyell

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Re: Crossbow heirlooming.
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2011, 11:39:31 am »
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Trael sorry but i can agree....

xbow have best hit ingame best missile speed best acc best everything....
 and they buffed bolts with 5 damage on mw.... oky i can live with that

after throw weapon nerf xbows are op....
it have better damage than throwing lance and you can take 13 or 26 bolts....
it slow weapon but with that acc you don't need be fast.

we need balance for xbows(not nerf but...) almost all archers will die with  1 shot, and ninjas and a lot of shielders and many others players.....

in version 220 i hit somene behind huskral shield....

i dont wan't nerf that weapon i want balance it (some skill more strength req)

i want that x-bow for pure xbowmen 
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Offline ThePoopy

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Re: Crossbow heirlooming.
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2011, 11:46:15 am »
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make it 3 slot  :mrgreen:

Offline Wulzzz

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Re: Crossbow heirlooming.
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2011, 11:58:43 am »
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we need balance for xbows(not nerf but...) almost all archers will die with  1 shot, and ninjas and a lot of shielders and many others players.....

I use MW sniperxbow + MW steel bolts..that's like 100 pierce but i still rarely 1 shot anyone strangely.Even many archers in peasant clothes survive 1 shot.
Like everyone puts Ironflesh now i guess.

Btw sniperxbow only makes sense for dedicated (150+wpf) xbowmen anyway imo, else you can just fire 1 shot and have to engage at the enemy with a 1 slot weapon cause of you gotta go close to the enemy with low wpf.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 12:02:53 pm by Wulzzz »

Offline Rumaahinen

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Re: Crossbow heirlooming.
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2011, 12:02:05 pm »
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I agree with Trael. Crossbow heirloom bonuses might look like huge but crossbow damage doesn't increase from skills. For example bows gain damage from powerdraw and wpf. Bows bonuses from heirlooming will actually become bigger bonus than crossbow has. On top of that I think that wpf also increases arrow speed. Lower tier crossbows projectile speed seems to be like joke: 3x heirloomed light crossbow has missile speed 50 while unheirloomed strong bow has missile speed 51. What I think should be done is to nerf base damage of crossbows and make it so that wpf increases damage and projectile speed. Perhaps that way this endless sidearm whine would end.

Offline Vibe

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Re: Crossbow heirlooming.
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2011, 12:25:50 pm »
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Have to agree that Arbalest loom is a bit too much.

To those who are saying that xbows do not benefit from skills: true, but crossbows have PIERCE damage.

Offline Native_ATS

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Re: Crossbow heirlooming.
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2011, 12:27:55 pm »
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I agree with Trael. Crossbow heirloom bonuses might look like huge but crossbow damage doesn't increase from skills. For example bows gain damage from powerdraw and wpf. Bows bonuses from heirlooming will actually become bigger bonus than crossbow has. On top of that I think that wpf also increases arrow speed. Lower tier crossbows projectile speed seems to be like joke: 3x heirloomed light crossbow has missile speed 50 while unheirloomed strong bow has missile speed 51. What I think should be done is to nerf base damage of crossbows and make it so that wpf increases damage and projectile speed. Perhaps that way this endless sidearm whine would end.
xbows cost any skill points? Bows need like 7pd to deal crazy damg like your xbow
do you even need wpf to use it at all? bows need like 100wpf+ to even get ok aim... your xbow has better aim at 0wpf then my long bow at 126wpf....
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its is op because anyone can pick it up and 1 shot people... Great range weapon for no trade off...

Offline v/onMega

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Re: Crossbow heirlooming.
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2011, 12:33:54 pm »
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I blame Fasader.

+1 tommyyy, its too much of a buff.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 12:35:09 pm by v/onMega »