Message and Poll to NA

[Gorath]

have pointed out that a collective ban is wrong

Is that what all this is about?  Well shit.

Normally a collective ban is pretty far out there, but this is lljk - aka the goons - aka it's like collectively banning all known necrophiles from your cemetery.  If anything the problem should be that this collective banning of the goons hasn't gone across all the NA servers yet.

[Meow]

Just to relax this whole thing no one will have to play on EU servers even if Ecko decides to shut the NA ones down.
Soon there will be an announcement where everyone can check for rules and requirements to run their own server and how to get connected to the DB.

Most clans and maybe even single individuals who can put up a server with a team of admins and uphold the rules we set will get the chance to have their server.
So everyone can choose where to play without having huge drama surrounding specific admins and stuff.

This is still being worked on but at no point will you NA guys run out of places to play on.

[Gash]

I would not hesitate to argue that the EU community has a higher maturity level than NA to be honest.

I don't think the EU community understands what NA has to deal with in terms of generalized trolling from LLJK.

We'll send 25 of them over to your servers for 5 months and see how you react after being patient, tolerant, and overall "too nice" to a bunch of trolls who make it their goal to feed of the QQ of those who come on to enjoy this mod.

The mass-banning was an unfortunate, but completely understandable reaction to the Bullshit that Peppovitch, Devilize and the Hospitalers had to deal with on their server. Their antics are hardly forgotten and they tend to accumulate.

LLJK was gone from our servers for 2 or 3 months and everything was fine. People were having a great time.  Then LLJK comes along after the patch and it takes them one week to make the most patient administrator crack.


Nuffen, no offense, but you really have no idea what we have endured with this crew.  A few of them are cool, including Gaga, but he himself admits that he can't control his own guys - and if he told them to stop, they would just continue and do it worse...   So again, don't come tell us what's wrong or not with mass-banning when you don't actually have to deal with it yourself. There was a talk between the leaders of both parties afterwards, organized by Ecko, and the issue was dealt with.  But a message had to be sent, and it was.  Most of these LLJK I am sure will be getting unbanned individually. That's up to Devilize to decide and he's already gone forth to say that ban appeals will be reviewed. In the meantime, Bordertown was opened for LLJK members to play on without annoying the rest of the community. It is under supervision and should have been used by EU Admins as an experimental platform to judge how Gaga and his admin team would handle their servers if ever given the right to connect them to the database.


It's a shame it has to come down to this, but I think Ecko's poll demonstrates that overall the diversified (multiple admins from multiple clans and independent players) Admin team we have for the NA servers is doing a good job. Exploiting has never been permitted on these servers. Cheaters have been caught and dealt with.  Racism is not tolerated. Regular players can come enjoy the game.


So please let us deal with our affairs, as the silent majority of folks who support this NA part of CRPG overshadows any whiners that speak loader than they do. In the end, everybody gets a second chance (sometimes a lot more) so there's really nothing that should push EU administrators to unwarrantably disconnect servers from the database - especially not from an experienced team that has worked hard to keep everything in line and contribute to the community.  In that department we can also thank Airith/Solonar for his great maintenance of the NA servers and the Scenery part of CRPG which he has been made admin of.


Thank you

-Gash

[nuffen]

I see.
We got loads of LLJKs visiting. All of em because they are banned from ATS servers. They dont cause any problems, makes me wonder, really.

Anyway, you're defending collective punishment. What if we, EU admins, started to ban all NA users, just because we got problems with some? Would you feel that that was ok?

Im actually very chocked, that you can defend collective punishment. And this shows that YOU cant handle your own affairs. I just hope that the other NA and ATS guys can, because you, Gash, have given me doubt.

[ManOfWar]

I see.
We got loads of LLJKs visiting. All of em because they are banned from ATS servers. They dont cause any problems, makes me wonder, really.

Anyway, you're defending collective punishment. What if we, EU admins, started to ban all NA users, just because we got problems with some? Would you feel that that was ok?

Im actually very chocked, that you can defend collective punishment. And this shows that YOU cant handle your own affairs. I just hope that the other NA and ATS guys can, because you, Gash, have given me doubt.

Theres a difference between randoms and a group of people Nuffen,  and of course not all are bad, but when the ok people do not make it a point so weed out the assholes, there is only one solution

and of course they are going to play nice on the EU servers,

Where else are they going to bloody go after EU? China?

and now what I thought were facts are not, Devilize did not order the large banning aparently, I am confused now

[nuffen]

No, banning one guy because what another guy with the same clantag did, is random. Im still shocked that you defend collective punishment. It would be like if I started to ban ALL NA members from EU servers because of what you said, or if I started to ban all jews, or native americans or... get where Im going ye?

[ManOfWar]

Well the good thing is not all were banned, though I am unsure whether they will be banned if they enter the server,

plus its only one of the battle servers, they can go to 80 but I suppose they are afraid

[Gash]

I see.
We got loads of LLJKs visiting. All of em because they are banned from ATS servers. They dont cause any problems, makes me wonder, really.

Anyway, you're defending collective punishment. What if we, EU admins, started to ban all NA users, just because we got problems with some? Would you feel that that was ok?

Im actually very chocked, that you can defend collective punishment. And this shows that YOU cant handle your own affairs. I just hope that the other NA and ATS guys can, because you, Gash, have given me doubt.

Nuffen, please don't doubt my ability to make the difference.  You're argument is rather poor.

Of course they won't cause problems on EU - and how long have they been there?

I am against collective punishment as I don't believe that one player can represent an entire clan. There are always bad apples in the basket.  The big difference being that most responsible clans and leaders weed out the undesirables and maintain some sort of code of conduct and/or discipline for their members.  LLJK does not and thus cannot be treated on the same level. As I stated, their leader (Lady_Gaga) who I can respect for coming on our ventrilo and hammering out situations admits himself he cannot control them and if he tried - they would surely make it worst...

I did not call for the collective punishment.  But I can understand why it was done. I understand that admins are humans with a certain level of tolerance and threshold. Once that level has been pushed enough times, things like these can happen. At the end of the day, there's only one group responsible for pushing that limit.  If it were just one or two - it would be a different story.  But this is a group of trollish individuals who feed off tears and QQ. By themselves they are fine, once in a pack- it sometimes goes a bit too out of control.

[nuffen]

Hey Gash, Im glad we share the point of view, we dont like collective punishment. I can also understand why it happens, but we dont support it

[Gash]

Hey Gash, Im glad we share the point of view, we don't like collective punishment. I can also understand why it happens, but we dont support it

I can respect the fact that you don't support it.

*edited*

This issue took place between NA, was addressed that same night by both NA parties, and will be resolved by us as well over time.

We've understood the CRPG developer and administrator message. This was a first in almost a year of server-managing - and I sincerely believe will not re-occur at any other time as the greater majority of NA clans are responsible in their management.

[ManOfWar]

Gash I think the EU is experiencing this as well, It is a bug i believe

[Rikthor]

The mass-banning was an unfortunate, but completely understandable reaction to the Bullshit that Peppovitch, Devilize and the Hospitalers had to deal with on their server.

Yeah, no. You weren't there so stop letting your hate cloud your judgement. I voted No because Ecko and the majority of the admins to a good job. I have only had issues with the way two admins did their job. The rest do a seemingly fine job.

You want to complain about the bullshit you put up with? We have watch both ATS and Hospitalers, admins and members, only enforce stalling rules when it benefits them. Want to hole up in a tower to prevent 10+ cavalry slaughtering your team? Stalling. Want to be a Horse Archer and actively kill enemy players even though you are the only one left? Nope, stalling and get kicked off the server.  ATS Admin hides in a corner and refuses to come out? Nope you are stalling, not him. So quit crying, both sides engaged in trolling and trash talking as the logs clearly show.

This is the third time I will say this...and I direct this at the previous poster.......The 100 Slot NA server is INDEPENDENT From ATS! Some ATS members are admins there but it is NOT an ATS server. If the owner of the 100 man Hospitallar server TELLS an admin to do something, either the admin does it or they are removed. You fail to understand the relevant information I am giving to you......Goretooth was told by the OWNER of the server to remove the LLJK presence. THe server owner is devilize, he makes the decisions for the 100 NA server. It was not Goretooth is mad Goretooth smash!! .

Well it was only a matter of time before I came on and on the ban list seen a dozen or so lljk members banned in mass. I didn't order a mass ban, but I'm happy to take the credit for it. Each individual that was ban can request, for themselves, to be unbanned along with the reasoning for the ban originally - just like everyone else. this thread is closed.

I hope that's miscommunication and not one of your admins trying to cover for another.

[Tears of Destiny]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Wait what servers were removed from the list?! Some were kept right?
Why was there no public announcement for this?!

Now what will I play on... I don't want to be stuck on EU and team shooting people due to 220 ping, egh.

[Dan lol]

Hey Gash, Im glad we share the point of view, we dont like collective punishment. I can also understand why it happens, but we dont support it

so banning a handful of trolls out of a 100 strong clan is collective punishment? I was under the impression that like a dozen guys got banned, but surely you weren't posting about something you don't know anything about were you?

[nuffen]

I can respect the fact that you don't support it.

But must you punish the entire NA community by disconnecting popular NA servers from the Database?

While the decision to collectively ban was drastic. I believe so was the decision to disconnect servers.

Regular players are paying the price of the disruptive behavior of organized trolls and that seems hardly fair or justified.

This issue took place between NA, was addressed that same night by both NA parties, and will be resolved by us as well over time.

We've understood the CRPG developer and administrator message. This was a first in almost a year of server-managing - and I sincerely believe will not re-occur at any other time as the greater majority of NA clans are responsible in their management.

Ok, theres obiously some misunderstandings here. I do not have the power to disconnect anyone from any database. I dont _want_ to disconnect any NA servers either, tho I wish devilizes server would stop the collective punishment.
Let me quote myself "No one have been suggesting to take down the ATS server network."

I see the irony tho. In your statement "I can respect the fact that you don't support it." you distance yourself from being against collective punishment, means you actually support it, in a post where you protest against it. One word:  hypocrisy

But no, this is not the devs disconnecting you, this is merely a bug.