RIP Dedicated throwing

[Seawied]

in next item patch:
all throwing items = 1 slot
darts = 6 ammo
axes = 3 ammo
javs, jarids = 3 ammo
throwing spear = 4 ammo (lower accuracy and damage than jarid)
accuracies reworked, improved on most weapons.
throwing lances removed.

disclaimer: this is not final. anything can still change.

This would fix things perfectly. Thanks for listening to feedback!


are any of PT reqs going to go up?

[Cheap_Shot]

This would fix things perfectly. Thanks for listening to feedback!


are any of PT reqs going to go up?

What? It wouldn't fix things at all. Ok, if those changes are still up for discussion then lets discuss.

I can pick up a regular crossbow and 12 steel bolts, only using two slots. I can use it without a single point of crossbow wpf or any related skill, and I can do more damage that way then with throwing spears, 6 powerthrow and 120 wpf in throwing. Giving us a few more shots wont do anything because while we will have comparable ammo to crossbows, they can do more damage then us with less risk at range and with several times the accuracy. (!)Throwers need that 14(?) wpf per powerthrow need slightly lessened(!), more accuracy per wpf point, a slight damage increase, and a few more throws per stack.

 Instead of removing the highest tier throwing weapon, increase the powerthrow requirement to use some of the weapons and put their stack size somewhere reasonable. If the slot size is going to be reduced then the powerthrow requirement for the better weapons should be increased defiantly, so it doesn't turn into a big throwing weapon TK nightmare with everyone trying to throw the best weapons with no accuracy.

On a side note, it might be a good idea to reduce throwing accuracy while a shield is equipped to avoid an OP turtle-thrower build.

[Seawied]

The example you list is more a problem with crossbows and not so much with throwing. Crossbows should have a WPF requirement in lieu of pd/pt.

[ManOfWar]

in next item patch:
all throwing items = 1 slot
darts = 6 ammo
axes = 3 ammo
javs, jarids = 3 ammo
throwing spear = 4 ammo (lower accuracy and damage than jarid)
accuracies reworked, improved on most weapons.
throwing lances removed.

disclaimer: this is not final. anything can still change.

God bless the item balancers! The throwing lances are removed!

[Cheap_Shot]

The example you list is more a problem with crossbows and not so much with throwing. Crossbows should have a WPF requirement in lieu of pd/pt.

Not really, it was just a comparison. Sure they should probably require wpf, but in every other regard they are pretty much right where they should be. Throwing is nowhere close to where it should be, it was hit too hard and needs a serious fix. Just changing the items around a little wont fix it. More then anything, that wpf requirement per level of powerthrow needs to be lowered. It makes high levels of powerthrow impossible to get to.

[Native_ATS]

God bless the item balancers! The throwing lances are removed!

they do less damg then xbows.... but w/e throwing is just  crap anyways
only gonna throw stars for laughs now.

[Gorath]

that guy is trash, and tuna town is melee only.... not range
soooo you are just trolling.

 
Tunatown is only melee only on the WEEKENDS.  During the week it's ranged included as normal.  Keep up with the times if you're going to spew some shit at me.   

@Cheap:  He uses his throwing lance in melee mode when he has to, also picks up any random 2h/polearm to defend himself and fight with after he's out of ammo as well.

God bless the item balancers! The throwing lances are removed!

^
INDEED!  Fucking retarded 1-shot weapons.

they do less damg then xbows.... but w/e throwing is just  crap anyways
only gonna throw stars for laughs now.

No, no they don't do less dmg than xbows.  You've really just become a whiny child you know that?
Throwing Lance:
Base dmg = 56 pierce
minimum 6 PT = 26.88 dmg
total = 82.88 pierce
@10PT = 100.8 pierce

X-bows:
Steel bolts = +8 pierce
Hunting = 37 (45)
Light = 46 (54)
X-bow = 54 (62)
Heavy = 67 (75)
Arbalest = 79 (87)

X-bows also cannot use a shield while firing, must stand stock fucking still to reload and take a long ass time to reload.  I know you just have this flaming hard-on for nerfing anything but throwing, and hopefully buffing throwing back into rediculous ez-mode status like it always was until this patch (and don't give me shit, I was throwing for a long ass time pre-patch as well, it was always ez-mode) ;  but really now, the whine level is reaching critical mass dude.

*I say nerf x-bows into the ground, along with what's left of archery AND throwing and lets keep the mod free from ranged butt-piracy once and for all*

[Cheap_Shot]

Why are you using the throwing lance as a comparison? I think that one guy you quoted is the only one who uses it. It takes two slots and you can only throw it once. It can do more damage then an Arbalest, maybe, but then again, that can fire 36 times for 4 slots, compared to twice.

@Cheap:  He uses his throwing lance in melee mode when he has to, also picks up any random 2h/polearm to defend himself and fight with after he's out of ammo as well.

^
INDEED!  Fucking retarded 1-shot weapons.No, no they don't do less dmg than xbows.  You've really just become a whiny child you know that?

He might as well just be a pole user then, if he's using a weapon that you can only throw one of as a melee weapon. They certainly don't one shot heavy armor. xbows on average do do more damage then thrown weapons, especially when you compare the relative invested skill and wpf points. To be able to do the kind of damage you're talking about with throwing weapons, you need to do this currently.

(31)
30/12

WM: 4
PT: 10

Throwing wpf: 140+ min

Little to no armor, no other skills, almost all skill points converted to agility, highest tier throwing weapons which have very little ammo. That is what is required. Anything less then 9-10 powerthrow and your throwing weapons don't do enough damage to survive. Half+1 will go into one plate guy. Anything more then 7-8 and you can't put wpf points into any other weapon, or wear armor because it lowers your wpf too much and you start getting error messages saying its not high enough and your powerthrow points are being wasted.

Comparably, a crossbowman who wants to do similar damage will still have breathing room to carry a sword and put points into it. I'm fine scavenging a sword to use, since it's part of the playstyle, but I don't have any wpf to spare. 14 per 1 PT is too high. 12 or 11 would be more reasonable. It would also be nice to have some idea how much armor will lower my wpf. I've wasted a lot of money buying better armor and finding out I can't use it.

Edit: In conclusion, remove everything from the game except horses, replace horses with monster trucks, buff monster trucks. Monster trucks are OP, nerf monster trucks.

[Gorath]

To be able to do the kind of damage you're talking about with throwing weapons, you need to do this currently.

OR you could quite trying to 1-shot with ranged weapons from body and foot shots all the time and do something like:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Hit points: 53

Unused skill points: 5
Skills to attributes: 2

Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 0
Athletics: 6
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 6
Weapon Master: 6

One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 107
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 130

with war darts for example:
base = 25 pierce
PT 6 = 12
total =  37 pierce

You can carry 16 max (and retrieve missed shots) while having more than enough wpf to wear decent armor AND use a melee weapon effectively (with 5 points to spare for shield or IF).  Or carry 12 and go with 1h'd or 2h'd like archers.  That's 12 incredibly fast rate of fire ranged shots, headshots will kill just about anyone, you can fire while running/jumping/kiting.  The increased ammo and decreased slot requirements are more than adequate buffs to give throwing more oomph.  With it you can use 9 Jarids or 18 wardarts with this build and be pretty goddamn lethal.

[Gnjus]

in next item patch:
all throwing items = 1 slot
darts = 6 ammo
axes = 3 ammo
javs, jarids = 3 ammo
throwing spear = 4 ammo (lower accuracy and damage than jarid)
accuracies reworked, improved on most weapons.
throwing lances removed.

disclaimer: this is not final. anything can still change.

As Akara would say: Finally ! We may rejoice !

[Cheap_Shot]

So I should just play a mediocre hybrid instead of being able to continue playing a dedicated thrower, which is what I enjoy? Leave all the higher tier throwing worthless and unusable because I can do something else? Well sure, I can respec, get on a horse and pick up a lance. That's something else. It seems your suggestion to fix throwing is "don't fix throwing, just make them all change their playstyle." That's not good enough. I retired recently because I was tired of the red error message telling me my build was broken. 120 wpf and 7 powerthrow is what I have right now. Wardarts are completely useless. Even jarids aren't worth it. I can't imagine stopping my build at this range intentionally. It would not in any way be enjoyable or worth it. You say we're whining, but we wouldn't be here if it weren't for the hoards of whiners who didn't know how to stand behind a shield. Throwing weapons were always inaccurate, and easily avoidable. Throwers were always easy to kill close up. Damage as a trade off, was the only good thing about it, but apparently it was OMG OP!!!!! even though I remember quite clearly that everything could one-two hit me right back. Go figure.

Out of curiosity, would you post your current build? I haven't seen you in game so I don't know what you play.

[Native_ATS]

OR you could quite trying to 1-shot with ranged weapons from body and foot shots all the time and do something like:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Hit points: 53

Unused skill points: 5
Skills to attributes: 2



Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 0
Athletics: 6
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 6
Weapon Master: 6

One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 107
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 130

with war darts for example:
base = 25 pierce
PT 6 = 12
total =  37 pierce

You can carry 16 max (and retrieve missed shots) while having more than enough wpf to wear decent armor AND use a melee weapon effectively (with 5 points to spare for shield or IF).  Or carry 12 and go with 1h'd or 2h'd like archers.  That's 12 incredibly fast rate of fire ranged shots, headshots will kill just about anyone, you can fire while running/jumping/kiting.  The increased ammo and decreased slot requirements are more than adequate buffs to give throwing more oomph.  With it you can use 9 Jarids or 18 wardarts with this build and be pretty goddamn lethal.

6pt wont 1 shot
loomed xbows do 100p
loomed lances do like 110p AT TEN POWER THROW. Thats 10pt which means you have 30str. Meaning you have a max of like 6agi, so maybe you can get 2 wm...
you lose damg if you dont have enough wpf in thorwing(150wpf need at 10pt)... so your not hitting 100p at all since you dont have enough wpf. Also who gets 10pt? i only get 9pt that way i can have more wpf
also what throwing do at 6pt? oh what not 100p? come on dont try to say throwing is fine because it is crap.
whats the diff? throwing takes skill points and wpf.... xbow dosnt need anything to hit 100p. At lest know the facts if you're going to spew some shit at me   

[Gorath]

6pt wont 1 shot
also what throwing do at 6pt?
wont 1 shot
oh what not 100p?
1 shot
come on dont try to say throwing is fine because it is crap.
wont 1 shot

That's what all of this, and your whine specifically, comes down to.
"WE CAN'T 1-SHOT EVERYONE ALL MAP LONG LIKE WE ALWAYS USED TO WHEN IT WAS OP AND BROKEN!"

@Cheap:  My "suggestion" is that throwers quit whining about not being able to 1-shot everyone they see, break shields in 1-shot, etc like before.
As for throwing accuracy being crap, that's shit.  I turned off my reticule on my thrower AGES ago, because the reticule will always be shit for throwing and make it seem like your accuracy is crap when in fact your throws will always go in the same general area.  Turn off your reticule and get a vis-a-vis marker and check it on your screen.  Throwing accuracy is fine and without the new ARTIFICIAL wpf restriction it never ever ever required wpf, just PT.

My build?  It's pretty much what I posted above.  All my characters are currently some variation of the whole:
18/18
6,6,6,6,5 thing.

My "main" is
IF 6
PS 6
Ath 6
WM 6
Shield 5

1h - 100
2h - 100
Polearm - 100

[Native_ATS]

let look at the high str throwing build, then lets look at the high str xbow build
Throwing build
27str, 9agi
9pt
9ps
3wm
3ride
3ath
100wpf in throwing, 100wpf in pol-arm
with this build u can 2 shot people with your 2 lances.... but you can melee with your lance too

Xbow OP build
27str, 9agi
9if
9ps
3wm
3ride
3ath
100wpf w/e and 100in xbow, takes 2 shots to kill a man. you have 13 shots. Ps you dont need anything in xbow to use it mid rang... so maybe you can have 133wpf in w/e and 0 in xbow... you still will do 100p

[Native_ATS]

That's what all of this, and your whine specifically, comes down to.
"WE CAN'T 1-SHOT EVERYONE ALL MAP LONG LIKE WE ALWAYS USED TO WHEN IT WAS OP AND BROKEN!"

no my fuss is That the throwing lance can 2 shot people and you still call it op, yet you can 2 shot people with the xbow and its fair?
why cant i have more then 2 dam lances.... or just 6 jarids.... 16darts
why can xbows 2 shot me, when they get 13 bolts yet i only get 2 lances and they suck ass....
why do i need to hit 3 for 3 jarids at 9pt to kill a man when the xbow takes 2 shots 
why do i need wpf when xbow dosnt?
why do i need skill points when xbow dose not?
why do i need to wear shit gear when xbow men can wear w/e they want?
why do i have to spend so much points to  2 shot a man when its free for xbows?
idc if i have to 3 shot people, i just hate that people like you cryed about it so much that they over nerffed it as a whole and then buffed the xbow.
Lances need a nerff, it was throwing top teir, and it didnt need to 1 shot. 2 lances to the chest seems fair but to only give me 1 lance is bs. To nerff all of throwing because of lances is also fail.
when the throwing lances is gone it wont bug me, as long as jarids and other throwing weapons are fix. right now they suck ass.
1 stack to kill a man is bs.
ya i can  kill a man with 3 war darts? like 40p each right?
so it takes 120p to kill a man, yet i can 2 shot them with a xbow and do like 165p?

throwing right now is crap, if you tryed to do a 6pt build and main throwing you would never be at the top of the list.
just want throwing to be avg, that and xbows to be evened out