The (not so) Great Long Axe

[Theodosius]

Hello there, Theo from Astralis here. I've been following these forums since I started playing but haven't really felt compelled to post. There is one issue that has been bugging me, however. As mentioned in this thread (http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-balance-discussion/long-bardiche/), there is something of a discrepancy between, say, the Long Bardiche and the Great Long Axe in terms of what you get for the money. Check it:

Great Long Axe stats:

Requires 16 strength
Speed:91
Length:125
Thrust:16 blunt
Swing:45 cut
Bonus against shield
Weight:3.5
Upkeep:885 gold

Long Bardiche stats:

Requires 17 strength
Speed:89
Length:140
Thrust:18 pierce
Swing:45 cut
Bonus against shield
Weight:3.5
Upkeep:485 gold

15 extra length is HUGE, and 2 speed difference doesn't mean a great deal in the world of polearms, where from what I have seen this mostly translates into a longer time chambering the animation before firing, particularly for the right swing (which, as we all know, is king for poles!). Plus, there's the issue of cost, which is not insignificant: I could rock blue brigandine over mail and use a long bardiche, or wear a mail hauberk and use the GLA for the same upkeep.

I have a suggestion, and a modest one: you will note that I did not mark the strength requirement for the weapons in red or green. This is because, in a world of optimized builds, 16 and 17 str required to wield a weapon translates into roughly the same thing: no 15/24 or 15/27 agi pole funtimes allowed.

Please lower the Great Long Axe's strength requirement by 1. Then perhaps we will see more players running around with one, and not just F8 ;)

I realize that you could conversely call for making the Long Bardiche unbalanced or lowering its damage, but I'd much rather see a buff to the GLA. As it is, between the long bardiche and long war axe there are better options, and I think that's a shame, because in my opinion the GLA is the sexiest-looking polearm in the game. Making it viable for agi builds is a start.

Thanks for reading,

Theo

[Turboflex]

Sometimes shorter and faster is better for tighter village & castle maps. Length isn't always a positive.

It's good there is a variety between shorter and longer weapons that are otherwise similar.

[Memento_Mori]

Sometimes shorter and faster is better for tighter village & castle maps. Length isn't always a positive.

It's good there is a variety between shorter and longer weapons that are otherwise similar.

lol I agree sometimes shorter+faster is better & also variety is good but...
to pay more money for +2 speed, because on those tighter village & castle maps that 2 speed is worth the 400+ gold in upkeep vs the bardiche.
That just sounds silly.

the long bardiche, for it's price, is a much better weapon.

For 400+ gold more in upkeep look at what positives you're getting..

+2 speed and -1 difficulty is definitely not worth it.

Especially since it's 16 str vs 17, most people who use these weapons have atleast 18 strength so they can get 6 PS or 6 IF...

[Nordwolf]

For me Great Long axe is an incredibly good weapon and I don't see the reason to buff it even more. ( Just imagine someone coming to you with 9 ath and this monster)
I would rather nerf the damage of Bardiche a bit or maybe make the costs ~9000 - 10000, like Long War Axe.

On the other hand, 2handers have their 15 str requirement Greatswords that are not worse, but probably even better than this.

[Turboflex]

lol I agree sometimes shorter+faster is better & also variety is good but...
Turbo says to pay more money for +2 speed, because on those tighter village & castle maps that 2 speed is worth the 400+ gold in upkeep vs the bardiche.
That just sounds silly.

the long bardiche, for it's price, is a much better weapon.

For 400+ gold more in upkeep look at what positives you're getting..

+2 speed and -1 difficulty is definitely not worth it.

Especially since it's 16 str vs 17, most people who use these weapons have atleast 18 strength so they can get 6 PS or 6 IF...

I didn't even look at price to be honest, just stats, so yeah I guess that could be tweaked.

[Torben]

if you want short and fast you wont take gla but lwa

[Lennu]

I'd pick GLA over Long Bardiche any time. Just because of my personal experience, and spammy playstyle 

[Aleskander]

I love my GLA.

[Bob_Ross]

Being a long bardiche user myself, I have to agree that the weapon is a bit too good for its price compared to other polearms. I really wouldn't mind a 4-5k price increase, which would make it more in line with the GLB and shorter, faster axes. The GLA, however, is a perfectly fine weapon imo. The problem lies with the long bardiche, not the GLA.

[CrazyCracka420]

I've always been favorable to the Long Bardiche over other polearms, I feel it's the best for it's price.  GLA is a nice weapon, but I wouldn't ever use it over the Long Bardiche just due to the cost (and I like the 140 length of LB).  The LWA is better than the GLA (IMO). 

I personally think the cost of the GLA should be lowered, or the price of the Long Bardiche raised.

[Kafein]

A discrepancy in internal balance isn't ground for throwing away global balance (even more might I add, allmost all 4D polearms above 120 in length need a long overdue nerf but that's my opinion).

[Nightmare798]

i love how i pay 700 upkeep for long espada while guys running with 140 long weapon and over 40 cut have 400 upkeep abd still swing faster than me.

NO.

[Tydeus]

still swing faster than me.

wat.

[El_Infante]

I have a mighty long bardiche and I can say that +2 speed is very noticeable even more if you are a tincan, so better than asking for a nerf to the bardiche, ask for a buff for the great long axe. A thing to remember; after polestun nerf we had nothing in exchange. One of the mayors nerfs of crpg to polearm user without getting anything at all after it.

[Teeth]

Fair point, I'd pick the Long Bardiche over the Great Long Axe any day. Great Long Axe used to be faster and lower damage, which gave it it's own little niche, now it's not as good as a CQC weapon as a LWA and not as good as a Long Bardiche as all around battle weapon. 

When talking balance, more reach is simply a plus. 1 requirement reduction is a very fair thing to ask, I'd dare to say one more speed would be deserved as well for the highest tier axe.