What class is OP

[Tibe]

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countering broken moves by implementing more broken moves

You couldnt implement or come up how to implement unbroken and balanced moves even if it punched you infront of your nose. Thank the lord you are not in this mods decicion making department.

[Akynos]

-Hoplite

I tried it. I have no experience whatsoever with it, have a no-loomed level 25 character, and I am constantly in the top 5 should I make the slightest effort.

-Polearm (pikemen)

Pikemen is a tough class to master, as when I tried it I was constantly kapikuluing. However, people who can master it ( should I really mention names?) become far too powerful even as individuals. Come on, a 3 meter long stick and you can defend yourself against a short 2h? Its a support weapon which some manage to use as a jack-of-all-trades. fix the idiotic animation already.

-1h

It's not really gameplay wise, rather points wise. With proximity points you can be first of your team by doing absolutely nothing beyond holding your shield on the front line. In fact, that's mostly how I got to be top scoreboard on every town map and on every strat battle I participated to. Fix the points system to allow damage to truly determine the worth of 1 handers.

[Tibe]

Pro pikers become invincible as individuals? Wat? Personally i dont think a single piker has taken me out individually in a year atleast, so i dunno what are you on about. I think people should leave pikes out of nerftalk in general. Its not the games fault that you cant predict a pikers kick or want to spam them so bad that you forget to block down. Seen even teeth run with his big stick away from 1v1 fights behind his teammates, so i dont get where you get your intel from.

[Penguin]

I'm amazed so many people think horse xbowmen are overpowered. Annoying? Maybe. Overpowered? Absolutely not unless you have terrible awareness or less than 2 athletics. I'd be interested to see how many 2handers picked HXers just because they have no awareness and get shot in the face while running in straight lines.

There's also a difference between overpowered and good in the hands of a competent user. Xbow cav is not good when the user is bad while 2h has the potential to be deadly in the hands of a newborn chimp. There should at least be a separate poll exclusive to non-2hers as well considering the majority of melee are 2handers who like to point out the OPness of every class but themselves.

You can guess what two classes I chose.

[darmaster]

I voted wrong option. Fail!

Voted 2h inf and 1h cav, but it's most def hoplite and 1h cav.

:/ i don't get why hoplite should OP; we have only 1 direction attack (downblock), enough. ofc damage and range are high, but i'd like to remind you guys that when stabs are blocked you get stunned; now if you're talking about problem with ganks, that's normal: it's harder to teamhit being hoplite (still i'm one of the worst teamhitters S: ) since you can only stab and you can't do sides swings, but i don't think that makes it OP, it just makes it more as a support class.

let's talk instead about how an agi 2h gets half of my hps just because of "speed bonus" fuck that shit and abuse their stab (i swear that if i'm playing with a 2h as hoplite 90% of his attacks are stabs those idiots), or 1h cav that, since they hit almost always the head with their boneless horse, almost 1shot you everytime. not much is needed to say about HX :/

I'm amazed so many people think horse xbowmen are overpowered. Annoying? Maybe. Overpowered? Absolutely not unless you have terrible awareness or less than 2 athletics. I'd be interested to see how many 2handers picked HXers just because they have no awareness and get shot in the face while running in straight lines.

There's also a difference between overpowered and good in the hands of a competent user. Xbow cav is not good when the user is bad while 2h has the potential to be deadly in the hands of a newborn chimp. There should at least be a separate poll exclusive to non-2hers as well considering the majority of melee are 2handers who like to point out the OPness of every class but themselves.

You can guess what two classes I chose.

i just want to tell you one thing: STRUDOG

[Teeth]

-Polearm (pikemen)

Pikemen is a tough class to master, as when I tried it I was constantly kapikuluing. However, people who can master it ( should I really mention names?) become far too powerful even as individuals. Come on, a 3 meter long stick and you can defend yourself against a short 2h? Its a support weapon which some manage to use as a jack-of-all-trades. fix the idiotic animation already.

If you are talking about the actual 300 length pike, yeah so OP. That is why no one used it. The pike is not a jack of all trades weapon. As soon as you are facing more than two opponents on your own, you are basically dead, unless they are retarded. The weapon does not even have a hitbox for the first meter, you can't stab at facehug range. In a 1 vs 1 the only thing you can do is backpedal and block attacks, but hey, every weapon can do that. Actually the pike is the hardest to do this with, because it is the slowest weapon in the game. Okay, I can in fact kickstab with it, but do you have any idea how incredibly difficult this is and how low the damage you deal is?

Pike has is jack of one trade and that is being awesome when supported, and even that is only in the hands of a competent player. Backpedalling and blocking is not much of a trade, when every single blockable weapon in the game can do just that. I will not stand for any further nerfs of the Pike, just because some people have dedicated loads of time to making it work as a weapon. Besides, my scoring potential was higher as a longspearman and much higher as an ashwood pike hoplite, so I suggest you look at those before touching my dear pike. The longspear is not at all OP either since it got even slower turning.

68 speed, 24p, one attack direction and unbalanced. If you find them too strong when they are not supported, I am not so sure who's fault that is.

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:/ i don't get why hoplite should OP; we have only 1 direction attack (downblock), enough. ofc damage and range are high, but i'd like to remind you guys that when stabs are blocked you get stunned; now if you're talking about problem with ganks, that's normal: it's harder to teamhit being hoplite (still i'm one of the worst teamhitters S: ) since you can only stab and you can't do sides swings, but i don't think that makes it OP, it just makes it more as a support class.

let's talk instead about how an agi 2h gets half of my hps just because of "speed bonus" fuck that shit and abuse their stab (i swear that if i'm playing with a 2h as hoplite 90% of his attacks are stabs those idiots), or 1h cav that, since they hit almost always the head with their boneless horse, almost 1shot you everytime. not much is needed to say about HX :/

It counters infantry, archers and cavalry very effectively. Which makes it the supreme battle class. That same speed bonus that applies to 2h stabs, allows hoplite stabs to one shot medium armours. Aside from that they have amazing speed, good turnrate and fairly easy to use stabs. You only get stunned when doing late drag stabs, the majority of your stabs get only a little stun which allows you to block. Try playing with a pike if you think hoplite stun is bad.

[Akynos]

hmm okay Teeth, I guess you know better than I do. However, do you agree that the animation is absolutely broken?

[Angantyr]

Pro pikers become invincible as individuals? Wat? Personally i dont think a single piker has taken me out individually in a year atleast, so i dunno what are you on about. I think people should leave pikes out of nerftalk in general. Its not the games fault that you cant predict a pikers kick or want to spam them so bad that you forget to block down. Seen even teeth run with his big stick away from 1v1 fights behind his teammates, so i dont get where you get your intel from.

Sure, but I think we can all agree close range lolstabbing with any weapons (really long ones especially) is bad, nonetheless, and is entirely viable with for example the ashwood pike or long spear (which I have a feeling was included in Akynos' argument about 'pikers'?), granted you don't mind animation abuse/wriggling like a tard.

[Teeth]

Pike stab animation is as broken as every other stab animation. You can manipulate it to hit quicker. Every single weapon can do that. It is a lot more noticable with the one directional weapons because they need to use it. And because the people using these weapons have spent time to learn how to do this, it is not actually all that easy. Not even talking about losing view on all your enemies when looking up.

Sure, but I think we can all agree close range lolstabbing with any weapons (really long ones especially) is bad, nonetheless, and is entirely viable with for example the ashwood pike or long spear (which I have a feeling was included in Akynos' argument about 'pikers'?), granted you don't mind animation abuse/wriggling like a tard.

I do indeed not mind. You know why? Because in real life you wouldn't be able to simply walk up to me through my extended spear in the first place. The only reason I have to stab at close range, is because a spear is not an actual physical object that can keep you at bay as in real life. Nobody ever mentions that though. I think it is very convenient to apply realism selectively and call up close stabbing broken, when I think it is a good trade off for you ghosting through my spear, which is something I think is broken.

Bullshit close range stabbing = bullshit walking through spears = good tradeoff gameplay/realism wise.

[Akynos]

I do indeed not mind. You know why? Because in real life you wouldn't be able to simply walk up to me through my extended spear in the first place. The only reason I have to stab at close range, is because a spear is not an actual physical object that can keep you at bay as in real life. Nobody ever mentions that though. I think it is very convenient to apply realism selectively and call up close stabbing broken, when I think it is a good trade off for you ghosting through my spear, which is something I think is broken.

Bullshit close range stabbing = bullshit walking through spears = good tradeoff gameplay/realism wise.

However Teeth, you forget that a spear is easily pushed aside by a sword. It is easy to bypass. Shall I even talk about the inability to cut the wooden handle in two? If we are to talk about the physical properties of the weapons you would be far worse off. which means that the ghosting does not balance for the 'bullshit close range stabbing'.
I would be alright to see the damage and the speed of the pike buffed if the close range attacks, jumping and even blocking was to be removed. You use a pike? more deadly in group. Completely useless at close range. Right now, You can fend off an enemy by aiming for the sky and hitting him with, effectively, the handle. Remove this bullshit but compensate with enhanced capabilities at long range. Watcha say?

[Teeth]

No blocking would effectively remove the weapon from the game. I think I am maybe one of 3 players who dares to consistently use the pike, I tell you now that there won't be a single one left if blocking gets removed. People get in your face all the time, even when you stay at the back. I can name about 5 players who instantly bumrush me as soon as they lay eyes on me, now if blocking was removed there would probably be 50 of those. Teammates do not guard you, nor are they able to hit someone that rushes through them very well. Which means using a pike without blocking means you die.

As if pikes are the only thing broken in a crappy Turkish basement coded game.

[no_rules_just_play]

However Teeth, you forget that a spear is easily pushed aside by a sword. It is easy to bypass. Shall I even talk about the inability to cut the wooden handle in two? If we are to talk about the physical properties of the weapons you would be far worse off. which means that the ghosting does not balance for the 'bullshit close range stabbing'.
I would be alright to see the damage and the speed of the pike buffed if the close range attacks, jumping and even blocking was to be removed. You use a pike? more deadly in group. Completely useless at close range. Right now, You can fend off an enemy by aiming for the sky and hitting him with, effectively, the handle. Remove this bullshit but compensate with enhanced capabilities at long range. Watcha say?

yes, but pikes would also become extremely good in a formation. at the moment its just holding downblock and fuck that formation, all the pikers need to split up and manage to kill the silly 2hander because he is too stupid to let himself get surrounded. silly 2h dies and cries for nerf.

[darmaster]

It counters infantry, archers and cavalry very effectively. Which makes it the supreme battle class. That same speed bonus that applies to 2h stabs, allows hoplite stabs to one shot medium armours. Aside from that they have amazing speed, good turnrate and fairly easy to use stabs. You only get stunned when doing late drag stabs, the majority of your stabs get only a little stun which allows you to block. Try playing with a pike if you think hoplite stun is bad.

hmm it counters as any other class in a good player's hands; 2h 1h and 4d swing pole counter infantry way better imo, but people just get aggressive against hoplites and play worse (as it happens for long spears and pikes, i get more aggressive against them too unfortunately). about the speed i don't get why it should be amazing, you can't spam people unless they're pike or great maul users. and for the stun it happens when you hit the ground/wall/roof (even if you don't hold swings); during those turns it happens to me quite a lot. i'd have never compared hoplites stun to pikers one, since pike is the pure support weapon, which don't stand a chance alone (unlike longspear).

anyway you can't say anything against pikes, they're made to be support weapon as i said above, i don't get why they should be OP.

also about that "broken animation" guys it's made for the game, noone would use 1d weapons if it wasn't for this "broken animation".

[Akynos]

No blocking would effectively remove the weapon from the game. I think I am maybe one of 3 players who dares to consistently use the pike, I tell you now that there won't be a single one left if blocking gets removed. People get in your face all the time, even when you stay at the back. I can name about 5 players who instantly bumrush me as soon as they lay eyes on me, now if blocking was removed there would probably be 50 of those. Teammates do not guard you, nor are they able to hit someone that rushes through them very well. Which means using a pike without blocking means you die.

As if pikes are the only thing broken in a crappy Turkish basement coded game.

Fair enoguh, allow blocking but no ability to attack at close range. Final offer.

[Angantyr]

I do indeed not mind. You know why? Because in real life you wouldn't be able to simply walk up to me through my extended spear in the first place. The only reason I have to stab at close range, is because a spear is not an actual physical object that can keep you at bay as in real life. Nobody ever mentions that though. I think it is very convenient to apply realism selectively and call up close stabbing broken, when I think it is a good trade off for you ghosting through my spear, which is something I think is broken.

Bullshit close range stabbing = bullshit walking through spears = good tradeoff gameplay/realism wise.

I would only be selective if I argued that going through weapon models is a good thing, which I didn't. Both things are BS, like so many other things in this game, one shit doesn't weigh up another.

And my argument was not based on realism (this is cRPG after all), only that I think close range lolstabbing with any weapon (really long ones especially) is wrong in both theory and practice, I'm actually a bit amazed someone would disagree, but I understand some feel it is necessary to make the class viable.